The reason I should be able to kill ANYONE I want.. : V - Skyrim

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:26 pm

I like breaking rules too. That's why I like the option of breaking quest if I want.

Same here. If someone (or thing) dies and closes access to a given quest (whether fault of the PC, an NPC, or an accident), I'd just take it as what occurred for this PC, and have it be something my next PC might experience. (This goes for the main quest too, as I don't particularly need a guarantee of completion open to all PC's.)

**And I prefer RPGs that don't strive to show off 90% of their content on the first play/ and every play.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:23 am

I can see the argument for both sides, but my preference is by far the "kill anyone" way. I don't like missing quests, but it adds so much more flavor to the game by people getting killed (unless their name is Walter from Megaton city..LOL) and as long as the quests are not broken by it, i'd prefer it that way. I really wouldn't want a scenario that would kill the entire fighter's guild questline just because old man Ben was killed by a cave rat in the first quest- preventing any progression.

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:33 pm

Also, with the Radiant AI thing Bethesda is advertising to us, the way they word it, it seems like we SHOULD be able to kill anyone, because more than one NPC can give a certain quest.
But I don't know to what extent this stretches.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:11 am

I like breaking rules too. That's why I like the option of breaking quest if I want.

At which there is nothing to do but reload and start all over again. In a game which only lasts 10 or 12 hours...I've no problem with that. In a game which lasts over 100 hours...I've a huge problem with that.

But...to each his own.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:30 am

At which there is nothing to do but reload and start all over again. In a game which only lasts 10 or 12 hours...I've no problem with that. In a game which lasts over 100 hours...I've a huge problem with that.

But...to each his own.

But there are many ways to make quest not "break", especially with this radiant AI thing Bethesda is working on so that if you kill one NPC, another NPC will give you the quest, thus making it more like real life. If I go into a job interview, stealth kill the manager, that job isn't over. Someone else will do the interview. Life will go on.
Not to mention, you can make it so only the player can truly "kill" an NPC, and other NPC's can simply make them go unconscious. There was even a mod for Oblivion like that. It's not hard scripting.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:34 am

I say about essential NPC's, they should be killable.
But you can still warn the player, maybe they still have that crown when interacting, signifying they are important.
Maybe they go unconscious one time as a warning.

But I should be able to kill them, seriously, those essential guard captians upset my day...

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:42 am

Once again, I have suggested this many many times in the past, and it is a simple solution:

Vital NPCs can NOT be killed by NPCs or monsters or whatever. The only way they can die is if you, the player, give the killing blow. This prevents hazards from taking them out, but also allows the player to make the final decision of whether or not to kill them, without those NPCs dying even when the PC isn't there, potentially ruining the game for the player.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:14 am

Maybe "bill is knocked unconcious , take his life -yes-no

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:33 pm

Maybe "bill is knocked unconcious , take his life -yes-no

Yeah, I don't understand how people only see 2 options, essential or they died so reload.
Bethesda could easily have them essential to other NPC's, but allow the player to kill them. And even then they could give the player a warning before the player makes the final blow.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:23 am

Maybe "bill is knocked unconcious , take his life -yes-no

Eh, I don't know. That seems a little weird to me.

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:15 pm

I agree. I loved how in Morrowind, encounters with important people felt very tense, like, knowing if I slipped up or messed up, bad things would happen. And you know what?
I absolutely thrived on that tension. It was so fun. I remember the first time meeting Dagoth Fyr. I don't know why, I just almost crapped my pants being in the same room as him. Knowing, one wrong slip of that trigger, and BAM. Dead. LOL. God it was great.
That feeling never happened in Oblivion. Not once. You know why? Because I couldn't kill whoever I want. Well, also, because enemies were all leveled and nothing was EVER a challenge whatsoever but, that's a different point. :glare:

Yeah in NV when I met Caesar I was like "holy crap, holy crap, Should I kill him? ED-E is waiting outside and I have my holdout weapons" But I didn't

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:22 pm

I think it should be like Dead Rising. You can ignore the quest or let someone die and it will say the truth is shrouded in mystery. But it will ask you if you want to continue playing or re load.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:43 am

What really got me angry about essential NPCs in Oblivion was that if I was looting a house with no one inside of it, a guard commander would come up and try to take me to jail; I would resist arrest and kill him. The thing was that I COULDN'T KILL HIM!!! :banghead: He would get back up in about 10 seconds and try to kill me.

SOLUTION (To my problem of course):

When you "kill" an essential NPC, they should be knocked out for like 30 minutes instead of 10 seconds. Then I could finally go back to looting every house in town! :goodjob:

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:28 am

The thing is the reason this feature is implemented in my opinion is for retards who would just slash the first thing they see once they get their first sword (probably a main quest character) and then BANG that's their main quest broken. They would then complain, switch it off and put COD back on.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:12 am

The quest icon should stay so you are forewarned that the NPC plays a part in a questline, but you should still be able to kill them. However, they should not be killable by other NPCs.

I didn't like that Martin in OB was able to live no matter what. In most modern games its a part of escort quests to keep your escort alive. He should have been allowed to die and you should have been forced to reload or continue with a broken MQ.

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:07 pm

Sure, I'm all for it. You know though the same people here saying "Zomg I should be able to kill anyone I want, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is the greatest game in the history of the universe." will be the first people on the forum saying "ZOMG I killed this guy now I can't complete my quest, Skyrim svcks".

So, yeah, have it, just don't complain about it later.

Edit: Haha, nice forum filter. Shows you how bad things can be around here at times when they have to do something like that.

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:30 pm

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to kill anyone - but there should be some sort of warning about essential characters - either a message which displays during / after killing them, or perhaps even a subtle symbol by their name when you look at them or speak with them so that you know not to try to kill them ahead of time. The option should be there though. If I want to kill Tel Fyr to take his Daedric armor, then I should be allowed to (and I could, in Morrowind).

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:34 pm

I think important characters should have special markers over their heads... or they should have a certain glow or color to them when u look at them. something... tihs way u at least know. because in morrowind u can kill some guy who hangs out in some random [censored] cave somewhere and all of a sudden the games like...oh btw... he was super important....

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:55 am

I agree but i should still know that im not killing someone important while on my killing frenzies

We can still give important npcs the crown recticle to show they are essential. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to kill them.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:41 am

We can still give important npcs the crown recticle to show they are essential. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to kill them.

This. There is already a way to show that they are important (I figured it out myself in 5 minutes the first time I played Oblivion), but we should get to kill them anyways.

» Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:19 pm

We should be able to kill everyone and continue playing in a doomed world. I hated being able to knock an essential NPC unconscious in oblivion and just keep hacking at them, and they would only ever be knocked out.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:54 am

I didn't like that Martin in OB was able to live no matter what. In most modern games its a part of escort quests to keep your escort alive. He should have been allowed to die and you should have been forced to reload or continue with a broken MQ.

*this. It would have made the main quest much more exhilarating .

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:18 am

The more immersion the better.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:19 am

I agree but i should still know that im not killing someone important while on my killing frenzies

Save before you go on a killing frenzy.

I think important characters should have special markers over their heads... or they should have a certain glow or color to them when u look at them. something... tihs way u at least know. because in morrowind u can kill some guy who hangs out in some random [censored] cave somewhere and all of a sudden the games like...oh btw... he was super important....

But that's what I love about TESIII, the surprises like that.

» Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:35 am

Save before you go on a killing frenzy.

^This