The Redguard Pantheon.

Post » Sun May 22, 2011 1:40 pm

Whose up for another nuking?


Didn't the Redguard's finish them off already? Or are they still around?
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Euan
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 9:25 pm

Or are they still around?


Does it matter?


EDIT: Either way, we can still nuke Summerset if we feel unsatisfied. Elves all look the same to me. Darn those pointy ears...
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Milad Hajipour
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 10:53 pm

Aw, I thought we were onto something. :laugh:


Don't trust the Poet, the Poet confuses with his puzzles and broken tongue.
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Alisia Lisha
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 9:14 am

These are spirits made from bits of the immortal polarity. The first of these was Akatosh the Time Dragon, whose formation made it easier for other spirits to structure themselves. Gods and demons form and reform and procreate.
[...]
At first the Aurbis was turbulent and confusing, as Anuiel's ruminations went on without design. Aspects of the Aurbis then asked for a schedule to follow or procedures whereby they might enjoy themselves a little longer outside of perfect knowledge. So that he might know himself this way, too, Anu created Auriel, the soul of his soul. Auriel bled through the Aurbis as a new force, called time. With time, various aspects of the Aurbis began to understand their natures and limitations. They took names, like Magnus or Mara or Xen. One of these, Lorkhan, was more of a limit than a nature, so he could never last long anywhere.
[...]
Ruptga was so big that he was able to place the stars in the sky so that weaker spirits might find their way easier. This practice became so easy for the spirits that it became a place, called the Far Shores, a time of waiting until the next skin.
"Ruptga was able to sire many children through the cycles and so he became known as the Tall Papa. He continued to place stars to map out the void for others, but after so many cycles there were almost too many spirits to help out. He made himself a helper from the detritus of past skins and this was Sep, or Second Serpent.


So what do the three actors Akatosh, Auri-El and Ruptga have in common? Also, what's different?
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krystal sowten
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 1:16 pm

They all precede the development of others, making the way easier for those who come after.
But Ruptga doesn't have any association with time that I can see.
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Cat Haines
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 9:27 am

Tall Papa also thought Mundus was a bad idea from the beginning, and didn't take part in creating it. That was my biggest concern when I said Tall Papa is Magnus, as Magnus did take part, but escaped.
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 1:53 pm

They all precede the development of others, making the way easier for those who come after.
But Ruptga doesn't have any association with time that I can see.


Well he creates Sep, which pretty much nails him as atleast some fusion of some aspect of Aka.
And the only sense of time in this mythos pre-mundus is the inevitable self-eating.
Ruptga learns and teaches the walkabout.
In transcending the self-eating he becomes beyond time, immortal.
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Ross
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 5:32 pm

Is Satakal eating everything supposed to be the Redguard equivalent of kalpas? I'm not sure because Mundus appears to be unique for the Redguards, yet Mundus appears in at least one other kalpa.
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Spencey!
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 8:19 pm

I think Satakal is the Aurbis.
Satak is the snake, and I think the self-eating of Satak is an uber gradient of the kalpa, atleast it would seem since it involves Satak and Akel rather than their representative spirits Lorkhan and Aka.
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Nicholas
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 1:09 pm

Tall Papa also thought Mundus was a bad idea from the beginning, and didn't take part in creating it. That was my biggest concern when I said Tall Papa is Magnus, as Magnus did take part, but escaped.

I don't think we're giving the Redguards enough credit. We can not just assume that the pantheons of the Altmer, Cyrodiils, and Nords are any more correct than that of the Redguards (Even if the lore of other pantheons coincide against Redguard belief). So what I mean to say here is, perhaps the Redguards are right, and that Magnus did not take part in creation at all.
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josie treuberg
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 12:07 pm

I think Satakal is the Aurbis.
Satak is the snake, and I think the self-eating of Satak is an uber gradient of the kalpa, atleast it would seem since it involves Satak and Akel rather than their representative spirits Lorkhan and Aka.


Makes sense, I guess.

I don't think we're giving the Redguards enough credit. We can not just assume that the pantheons of the Altmer, Cyrodiils, and Nords are any more correct than that of the Redguards (Even if the lore of other pantheons coincide against Redguard belief). So what I mean to say here is, perhaps the Redguards are right, and that Magnus did not take part in creation at all.


MK told us a page go we were wrong about Magnus = Tall Papa.
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Rex Help
 
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Post » Mon May 23, 2011 1:10 am

MK told us a page go we were wrong about Magnus = Tall Papa.

Despite that, I think he's making a good point.
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Alada Vaginah
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 6:20 pm

If they're at all related, Tall Papa could simply a be a fusion of both Aka and Magnus, Magnus taking on a separate form in other pantheons as the aspect of Aka that moves on without the lesser spirits.

MK technically only confirmed that Tall Papa is not distinctly Magnus.
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Justin
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 4:09 pm

If they're at all related, Tall Papa could simply a be a fusion of both Aka and Magnus, Magnus taking on a separate form in other pantheons as the aspect of Aka that moves on without the lesser spirits.

MK technically only confirmed that Tall Papa is not distinctly Magnus.



Tall Papa as Magnus?

Syrsly?

Think raga. Then think of the various ways the Sun would affect the Weather/Eyeball/BodyClock/Agriculture/TheShineOfASingleDewdropBeforeAnImportantDuel.

Just how many gods would you have to govern acknowledge those?


The only thing I got out of this was that Tall Papa's sphere is very, very narrow. And that Magnus has too broad a sphere for a parallel to be drawn. Instead of combining deities, maybe we need to start stripping them apart?
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Strawberry
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 6:09 pm

I think he might have been trying to say that rather than worshiping the sun, the redguards would have different deities for what the sun affects. Tava might affect the weather while Zeht would affect agriculture. They wouldn't worship the creator of the sun because what the sun helps cause already have gods to govern.

If the sun even does affect stuff the same on Nirn.
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Scott
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 3:25 pm

Well, could we draw a line from Tall Papa to Anu? The Altmeri Anu mimics his actions, after all. And the Anuad (Ayleid creation myth?) speaks of the blood of Anu becoming the stars.
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I love YOu
 
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Post » Mon May 23, 2011 12:06 am

If the sun even does affect stuff the same on Nirn.

I operate on the assumption that until we've reason to think otherwise, things work the same.
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Dezzeh
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 6:43 pm

Well, could we draw a line from Tall Papa to Anu? The Altmeri Anu mimics his actions, after all. And the Anuad (Ayleid creation myth?) speaks of the blood of Anu becoming the stars.


Possibly. Anu and Padomay are sometimes treated as if they are conscious.
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Genevieve
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 3:22 pm

Also, the more I read into the myths we have available to us, the more I think that Mikhael Karkuxor is wrong, a propagandist, and an idiot.
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Myles
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 9:53 pm

Also, the more I read into the myths we have available to us, the more I think that Mikhael Karkuxor is wrong, a propagandist, and an idiot.

Alduin:Akatosh::Michael:Mikhail?
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Killer McCracken
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 9:12 pm

Also, the more I read into the myths we have available to us, the more I think that Mikhael Karkuxor is wrong, a propagandist, and an idiot.

Assuming you're referring to the fictional author, you're making the mistake of denying these texts the reality of a creative development. Varieties of Faith is positively ancient; it was quite literally written in a different century. Of course there's going to be discrepancies with later material. The key difference is that these discrepancies were not (necessarily) introduced on purpose. This text was not (necessarily) written to be wrong, because its content may well have been the agreed-upon truth at the time. Just like with later, deliberately biased texts, you can interpret the inaccuracies as the result of ignorance or propaganda, but on this side of the fourth wall there's an important interpretative distinction to be made between the two.
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Multi Multi
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 8:46 pm

Also, the more I read into the myths we have available to us, the more I think that Mikhael Karkuxor is wrong, a propagandist, and an idiot.


Why is that? Any examples?
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matt oneil
 
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Post » Sun May 22, 2011 8:26 pm

Why is that? Any examples?
Well, his bias towards the Imperial Pantheon is pretty clear, and I think that he is pretty reckless in drawing parallels to them. I don't know about any specific examples. At least, not at the moment.
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lucile davignon
 
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Post » Mon May 23, 2011 3:50 am

Well, his bias towards the Imperial Pantheon is pretty clear, and I think that he is pretty reckless in drawing parallels to them. I don't know about any specific examples. At least, not at the moment.


All the parallels seem pretty clear, IMO. Except when their not, in the case of the Redguard pantheon. But he doesn't draw much parallels from the Redguard pantheon except for Sep & the obvious ones.

And I don't see much bias. He uses the Imperial names because those are the ones readers are familiar with he is from the empire.
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Mistress trades Melissa
 
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Post » Mon May 23, 2011 2:04 am

His bias is Imperial, specifically for the Imperial Cult of the Nine. There are thousands of cults in Cyrodiil alone; he chose the gods he did because he believes they are most important, or universal. His book may have helped lead to Uriel's pan-theosophic Elder Council. Tolerance for other views of Lorkhan isn't such a bad legacy, is it?
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Courtney Foren
 
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