Oh, I was thinking about totally different things. Thanks.

I agree with this. I can't remember the author, but there's a citation that goes "whether you say that you can or can't do it, either way you are right". If you fill yourself with so much negativity over Skyrim not being Morrowind with better graphics and physics, then how can you possibly ever even hope for it not to be a disapointment? Try clearing yourself completely of any prejudice and looking from a fresh perspective. Try imagining that you never played a TES before and this is your first one. Only then can you judge the changes for what they truly mean.

Exactly. This is how I play all my games. I never have any preconceived notions or even compare the game to another until after I finish the game, then I judge it. Group hug :hugs:

Okay. That was just a weird transition for me to follow.
But, its a trade, like you said. For whatever reason, if someone values the old system over the new, then no matter what you get from the trade, it is still an overall loss.
And that can be jarring.

The whole problem isn't as complicated as it is often made out to be.

:hugs:

Yeah, I'm just too lazy to hit the enter button to split the statement hehe.

It's not a literal loss, it's just a loss in the minds of those people. I pity that they have to ignore the truth but it can't be helped sometimes.

at this point, i preffer skyrim system

the main fun in oblivion is role play your character, the methods you use in order to do that are irrelevant, i just want the elder scrolls flavor, i don't care the way i construct my two characters, the real important thing is that i will have the tools to acomplish that.

now you dont need to marry your character with an axe or a sword by using them, now you can use both and know which one is better for your character, and at the end you decide wich one is better by choosing the corresponding perks.

you people can complain all you want i know and you know that we will buy this game and we will enjoy it, by the screenshots i know that this will be the best elder scrolls ever as allways happen when a new elder is revealed.

This doesn't help one bit.
The truth is we have a new system that we only know about in theory. It could just as well flop ES into a mirror of all the secular exp segmented leveling as much as become the *savior and rejuvenation* of the series. If you are going to critique anyone you should be ready to admit this.


* I personally think that will happen with the recreation of a vast and differentiated world and culture system.

Well, there are the holds that are governed by freshly formed councils that overthrew their ruling families, and those councils will be very different in terms of their politics, and many side quests will probably revolve around them. Also, there was official info somewhere that the major cities are going to be very distinct from one another (in terms of architecture and background).
So yeah, your personal preference will get some love it seems.

My personal preference just squealed while doing jazz hands and spirit fingers.

My biggest problem isn't that they cut skills, its that they cut gameplay (and cutting skills is their favorite way to do so).

What if I want to play a tylvanni mage? Well I can't, because they cut levitate. How bout a follower of Hircine? Nope, spears and lycanthorpy - both out. A shadowscale assassin? Again no, birthsigns are supposedly out this time. A psijic? Sorry, no mysticism...

All these things are well established parts of TES lore and should NOT be cut. Removing them is basically destroying the diversity that makes TES what it is.

Perks are great and all, but they are confined to within their assigned skill... they can't add near as much gameplay as the skills themselves.

I don't how anyone can think those a waste in an RPG. If a character is skilled in high speech but not low speech, then it means that he's comfortable at court and State gatherings, but stand's out like coinpurse with legs in a back alley pub; and no one will talk around him except to tease or threaten. :shrug:

The waste with language skills is if the RPG never has situations where not knowing it leaves you in the dark to a conversation ~perhaps in that same back alley pub. Or if knowing allows you to read certain signs and texts; (though honestly... Literacy in a fantasy or Post Apoc setting should be a skill for each language).



What's unrealistic is that the sword master is a master at blunt ~and never touched a blunt weapon in the game until he lost his sword. As to similarities... I'd have to think that instinctual habits built up for sword cuts wouldn't work to well with a top heavy mace with soft edges.

Most PnP rpgs.. but the game I was thinking of was "Eye of the Beholder"; though there are others.



What's the practical difference between that and a skill?

Non-exploitable in a leveling system where all skills move you up.

No point in worrying, its to far in developement to change the whole leveling system. Also you haven't tried it yet, so its unknown wether you like it. So all you can do is wait, and maybe not stress over things you can not change. Like a Stoic approach.

The game is more complex than any game before. More skills, many of them which would be incredibly situational and if you pick only situational skills, you will be doomed, doesn't make the game more complex.



Chris Taylor was the designer for the original Fallout and Fallout 2 perk system, that system based on previous similar systems and then expanded on. However, Fallout 3s system and Skyrim's system are a combination of Fallout's perk system and TES's perk system. So yes, thank Chris Taylor but also thank BGS.

I never liked that in TES. :laugh: Advancing a couple skills never felt like a life changing epiphany for the character.
I can understand the logic... Thief gets better at stealth and lock picking == better thief, but I always preferred the XP method, where life experience advanced their personality, and the rest was left to an abstract.

What seems a curious question to me... about this, is that if one's class no longer exists, then do all PC's level up from the same few skills?
The more I learn about this game, the more it begins to remind of the Modron maze.

I think you misunderstand where I am coming from with that comment. Unless you weren't addressing me specifically; in which case carry on.

Skills that are higher level, will contribute more to your overall level, giving advantage to the player who specializes in few skills, this is of course offset somewhat by the fact that higher level require more xp, which means that if you try to level all skills equally, you will level very slowly.

This. If you try to level alot of skills equally, you will be gimped in the game and will be forced to go into a more specialized build.

Sounds a bit like D&D. In D&D if you are multi-class (like fighter/mage/thief), then you level up slower than the PC with just one.
(2nd edition)

That system actually doesn't sound bad.

The "learn-as-you-use" system is as flawed as the XP one, since you are limited to actively seeking out specific situations that will level your preferred skills instead of just using the abilities you have the way you want in any situation. Does that make sense? A bar that moves from left to right increasing damage and chance to hit does not equal combat customization. If the skill changed in drastic play-style and function as you progressed in it, then yes it would = customization and that is what BGS is trying to do with 'perks'. The naysayres do no not understand what makes skills different, they just want progress meters that they can raise.

Excuse me, guys? I have a simple question.

How is it revolutionizing anything? If anything, I feel like it's more an MMORPG-fueled character progression now.

Yeah, I'm not sure that it is actually based on D&D because they have key differences but the result is the same basically. It makes you feel like your actually accomplishing something instead of becoming a jack of all trades for little to no effort.



Why do you say that? If your talking about the "perks" system being like a talent tree, then don't bother thinking that because perks were in existence before the MMOs started using talent trees as a staple.

A number of skills did need reworking...Unfortunately I fear they may be the wrong ones. I think Speechcraft and Mercantile would go great together, since by themselves they are rather lack-luster: Mercantile took forever to earn up, and was impractical as a major skill. Speechcraft could be subverted utterly by much less complicated spells (super low level charms.) If you combined the two, since they are both aspects of a charismatic "Haggling," it would become much more desirable.

I also think they should give Security the ability to help you find Physical traps (which need to be better hidden) while Enchant would let you find Magic Traps. (Like the ones in morrowind, but without saying "TRAP" on them.) But Security is another one of those troublesome problems; the only reason it sees any use in Oblivion at all is because of their late-decision to force Open spells to be target-only (and thus hard to hit gates, and impossible to use underwater, where ayleid ruins have a good number of chests that need opening.) Theres a single very hard open scroll that retained its Touch designator, but this cant be re-created either in the game or in the CS.

Doing stuff like intentionally crippling one power because it has made obsolete another is never really a good way to go about things. Unfortunately, the solutions are either do that, or walk down a path that eventually leads to the only skills being "Combat, Magic, Stealth."

Oh my god, they're so gonna kill the game if they remove skills! we're dommed! :shakehead:

Seriously, if all you want are little bars with numbers besides them, I don't think you're playing the right game
TES' motto isn't "Evolve and become skilled", but "Live another life, in another world".
The number of skills isn't relevant to how "TESish" it is. The actual world is!

And honestly, I would much prefer see USEFUL, WELL-THOUGHT skills, than one-use ones and skills t hat you almost never use

But oh well, I guess I shouldn't try to convince you anymore. I'll be enjoying the game because I'm open-minded, while you will hate it without even giving it a chance. Guess who has the most fun? definitely not you...