Cool. I suppose you play on a console where rentals are more possible.

I think I'm only basing my comment on like 2 days of comments. Sorry for making it 1 million and 1.

I'm realising this "efficient levelling" people complain about is only because of Oblivion's level scaling- you don't get stronger and the game [censored]s ya. But wouldn't that be any case improving anything not combat realated? I guess in Morrowind if you didn't level up "efficiently" you could just train to get stronger.

Since everyone is saying how hard it is to not completely throw away all attributes, and to give lonemessiah his intelligent warrior, off the top of my head why not this hybrid system- attributes improve with skills but are not selected on level up. Instead you choose perks and stats like skyrim. What's the problem? Everyone's treating the removal as some sort of revolutionary breakthrough.

I always wanted to play an intelligent warrior who couldn't cast spells. I never could because the moment I chose to raise my intelligence my Magika also went up. Why did it go up? I was more intelligent, not more magical. In fact I can't think of a single time any attribute was used in a functional way in the entire previous two games.

I know I am now going to get hit with, well improve it don't remove it. Improving it would have meant an entire re-write of the way the ElderScroll games has always handled skills. Elder Scroll games have always been about skills and not attributes. A person with high sword/ one handed skill but a low strength always did more damage than high strength low skill.

The attributes did nothing that skills and perks couldn't do by themselves. Can people complaining about them honestly say they really paid any attention to them except when they leveled up? Did you ever go into a conversation and decide "my charcter only has 52 Intelligence, therefore he wouldn't ask that sort of intelligent question"? When did the complainers ever actually use the attributes? Because the game never did!

The truth is that it's easier in Skyrim than in Oblivon or Morrowind to make the intelligent warrior. Instead of having to force spam skills like Alchemy, Mysticism, and Conjuration for 3 hours straight, you just use the specified skills as often as you want, when you want. If you decide you want to take a skill point in one of those skills, you take it.

People abhor change.

But there is no intelligence modifier! That's the whole point, he doesn't want to be a magician.

I just proposed a change? What I'm abhoring is just completely throwing everything away, or, if you'll forgive me, dumbing it down(first time I've used those words)

I don't see why people seem to think Bethesda have "taken out" attributes and not put anything back in. Last I heard there were no perks in Oblivion or Morrowind - perks are quite clearly designed as replacements for attributes. Why is it such a big deal that we can't put 5 more points into our Strength or our Intelligence stats? We'll have perks available which have the exact same effects. Think about it:

Oblivion/Morrowind - to increase total magicka, put points into Intelligence Attribute.
Skyrim - to increase total magicka, get magicka-increase perks - and put extra points into magicka when we level up.

Oblivion/Morrowind - to increase sword damage, increase blade skill and strength attribute.
Skyrim - to increase sword damage, get sword-damage-increase perks.

It's exasperating to see so many people complaining about Bethesda removing attributes without replacing them, when replacing attributes is exactly what perks are designed to do.

Like I said, attributes are what makes you a person and aids roleplaying etc., perks are skill specific. So I get a one handed perk that gives me extra damage, I hold my sword with two hands and suddenly I can't hurt anybody?

That just sounds like an RP thing to me. If intelligence affected a warrior character in such a small way as to be barely noticeable in the past, why is it so important to have a number associated with it?

I was talking about skills specifically that make it easier to sort of be a more intelligent warrior. Since they never have had INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION option in Elder Scrolls, why does the intelligence stat matter at all for anything but Role-play?

And if it is Role-play, why would stats ever matter at all?

Attributes aren't required for role-play. Actually quite the opposite. Attributes get in the way of real characters.

Who are you to say I don't want them for role play? Or need them?

If I want a dumb warrior with amazing strength and uber endurance I should be able to create one.

And as for every finger pointed at the previous attribute systems should be cut off because I think it does not apply. We are talking about Skyrim after all and not about OB or Morrowind.

Beth improved on so many things yet they did not want to put effort into improving on what defines your character physically and mentally?

Attributes aren't required for role-play. Actually quite the opposite. Attributes get in the way of real characters.

Who are you to say I don't want them for role play? Or need them?

If I want a dumb warrior with amazing strength and uber endurance I should be able to create one.

And as for every finger pointed at the previous attribute systems should be cut off because I think it does not apply. We are talking about Skyrim after all and not about OB or Morrowind.

Beth improved on so many things yet they did not want to put effort into improving on what defines your character physically and mentally?

Exactly, "get in the way of real characters"? They certainly get in the way of identical characters. You do realise without attributes everyone in the world is exactly as clever, fast, explosive and have an equally good personality as you? In other words, they ARE you. And this is just from a roleplaying perspective.