Exactly what I mean when I said the Ark is finite, and dying. The only way for anyone to survive is to reach land, which will never fail due to machinery, and more importantly, it won't sink into the sea.
Security is doomed due to their lack of knowledge of the Arkoral going sterile, so really they are bound to die. Can someone explain how Security is going to survive?

or not let people on the arc they gave what they could and the restacnse want more if you go to land then what are they going to stay there or are they bring back more people ore mouths to feed and possible people who have their own agandea :facepalm:

not lets save these random poeple who we just meet because they last people who try that (security team 13 years ago) didnt get brutility murdered because they wan to help.....the people on the arc ...wink, wink
its the only possible conclusion or the dev are just letting the game go

DLC for happiness save by other random peopl filled with hugs and kisses......... NONE

dlc for all hell breaks loss because chen an idiot and crys about everthing . . . .LOTS of possible dlc



I was a teenage anarchist, but the politics were too convenient.
In the depths of their humanity all I saw was bloodless ideology.
And with freedom as the doctrine, guess who was the new authority?
I was a teenage anarchist, but the politics were too convenient

the revolution was a lie.

this says it all

Overpopulation would happen, but not even half as quickly if the Guests were not there. The Ark's failures would slow as well. Arkoral is obviously going sterile, but only because of the pace that it is being used up. During the Security side of the prison break, one of the members mentions that the Resistance (or Guests, not quite sure) built the place. I take this to mean that the Ark was originally much smaller, but more resources had to be used to accommodate the Guests. One founder (if I remember correctly) makes an excellent point that the Resistance attacks the factories for clean water, and then complain that the factories are closed. What big picture is needed now to understand that they are slowing down progress? And I'm not saying you are wrong about Gandhi's taking up arms, but the only thing I could find that was close to it was that he supported violence over cowardice, and his urging of the release of violent criminals from prison. Can you tell me where I might find some more information about him?

Gah. It's hard to pick a side.

But they did take them on board, because they're not bad people, and as such they have something of a duty of care towards them, so they need to get them a new place to live for everyone's sake.

I personally think a horde mode where Security and Resistance band together to fight a tribe of savage pygmies in the South Pacific would be awesome

Do you think if Security won the war and the Arkoral was stopped being used so excessively it could become abundant again?

It's not clear whether the Founders still have the ability to get everything working again, and they'd succumb to inbreeding eventually anyway. Security have the best short-term solution, Resistance have the best long term solution.

I don't care which side is right or wrong, Fascists always have the better costumes

Historically that costume has ended up as a noose

Yes, the Ark is meant to be self-sustaining, but only to a maximum population of 5,000. It says so on several of the signs in the clips in-game if I remember correctly. The Guests came to the Ark in tens of thousands - all of the water purifiers and hydroponic gardens and whatever are running at full capacity. The Arkoral that the entire city is made of is not capable of reproducing any more, and so many of the additions to the Ark are made of steel, which obviously doesn't do well in water.

The Founders did graciously allow the Guests to stay on the Ark - they could have turned them away, but they didn't. However, ever since they showed up, the Guests have been treated horribly. Security takes a double-ration of water for keeping all the Guests working on the Ark like slaves. The only job for most Guests is unskilled labor or Security.

So the viewpoint of the Resistance is that they do all the work keeping the Ark up, but they're treated the worst out of anybody on the Ark. Security isn't helping anybody, they're getting double rations to be oppressive but otherwise useless. The Founders do literally nothing, but they live like kings. Resistance wants equality, and believe in working for your living.

Neither side is entirely right or wrong, but I wouldn't discount one side for half of the audio logs. I agreed with both sides. In fact, until I heard the logs, I was convinced that Security was just a group of Nazis.

I feel stupid asking because I am sure it is obvious, but this is a topic I hardly know anything about, so could you explain how it would end up happening and if it could be prevented or is it a 100% chance?

If you have 5 women and 5 men you can create 5 couples out of 25 combinations (each man could pair up with any of the 5 women). If each couple has a boy and a girl you then have another 5 men and 5 women and can still create 5 couples, but now you can only have 20 combinations because each woman is the sibling of one of the men. At the next level it reduces further because you have siblings and cousins, and eventually after a few generations there's nothing you can do but nail your 4th cousin at best.

The only way to prevent it is by introducing new blood to the Ark.

What if the Ark is the only real hope for humanity? Saving the Ark rather than leaving seems more immediate. What if the outside world is nothing more than savages and those who dwell in the wastes?

Sustaining a population of 50 and sustaining a population of 5000 are totally different when it comes to genetics. If you're intermarrying far enough back in the family trees, it's going to keep the gene pool from degenerating.

Remember, at 5000 people, even assuming a really unbalanced gender split (they are almost all guys :whistling: ), there's going to be at least 1000 mating pairs. If you had 5000 on the Ark, and the population was maintained at that level, you'd be fine. If they started by moving 3000 - 4000 people onto the Ark (maximum 3000 advlts and late teenagers), this could reasonably managed.

how could they succumb to inbreeding theres 1 women on the arc
plus it a teen rated game im pretty sure they not worried about six on the arc

You are right, but what makes that even better is there is actually 10,000 people for Security and Founders, not just 5000. So it's fine. Not going to succumb to inbreeding. Thank god. I can proudly go back to supporting Security now that I know the Ark won't eventually become... inbredified. And yes, that is a word. Well, it is now anyway.

I was merely making the example since the question arose.

We don't know how many people were originally on the Ark, what their genders or ages were, or how many were members of a family, so there's no way of telling how easy it would or would not be to avoid any genetic issues (or social issues for that matter) in the long run, but yes the numbers would suggest a decent length, providing they were well mixed and not excessive in their reproduction.

Back to the topic though, I find it interesting how many people take the various things we're told in game, as well as tha audio logs, as outright fact and not a skewed image, since it was obviously SDs intent to skew everything to allow for interpretation. Knowing only what we're told means we only know someone else's "truth".

A good bit of Security is composed of people that came from the mainland and joined, and many people that were on it pre-flood are dead, so I don't see it happening at all really, especially with 10000 people.

And there you have it. A good bit of Security are actually Guests that get extra benefits for doing a particular job for those in charge, while others that also do work for those in charge get very little.

That's the dangerous line that the Founders walk by giving out more to some and not to others within such a delicate social system. There's an audio log from one of the founders about how they educate some and if the others would just take advantage of the education the founders provide they would be able to get what they need, but without the Guests that don't have that education doing all the labor the Ark would fail.

Those at the top need those at the bottom to do the work they do, no education will change that, so why does that make those at the bottom worth less than those at the top?

The fact that they demand more when they are getting all they can be given. The fact that they steal from factories and then demand they be reopened. I wouldn't say they are necessarily "worth less", but you can't deny those facts. The Ark would be a much safer and better place if the guests weren't there.
Barbara( one of the Founders) said it best, the guests cause the chaos, the guests are the chaos.
Edit: Funny how we are kind of debating for the opposite sides from the one we started out debating for.

Those facts are the effects of the Guests being treated differently to begin with. They could be given more than they are at the expense of those that the founders give more to getting less.

In theory the Ark might be safer and better without the guests, but perhaps there wouldn't be enough labor to keep it afloat after all these years. Or perhaps when a militant force finally does find the Ark, there wouldn't be enough security troops to defend the Ark. Either way, it's all theoretical because the Guests are there. It's too late to change that, which is why it can no longer factor in. They're there and now it's all about making it work.

I'm not on either side of the "conflict", or rather I'm on both sides. For the purposes of the game I am whoever I play as, for the purposes of the discussion, I'm for the people, all of them. I have little care for those in power beyond the point that someone must be there. It's time for all involved to set aside their wealth, pride, hate, power, or whatever it may be, and look to the future of the society.

The lack of labor would actually be a good thing. The Arkoral is failing because it is being used so constantly, and if the guests weren't there it wouldn't have to be used as much. Besides, the founders could handle it. Again quoting Barbara, it's not like the Founders are a bunch of wrist flapping effete horizon gazers incapable of fixing anything.
And I am speaking as if Security won and got rid of the guests, not as if they never showed up, so the Ark would still most likely be able to defend itself with the people that joined.

Take some genetic samples, freeze some eggs'n'swimmers, then detonate the Guest slums and let them sink. Take what's needed to survive and cut the dead wood. Same goes for any Founder not pulling their weight. Guest placings on the Arc should have been given only to the best and brightest.

It's the end of the world! New rules apply. Old ethics and morality have been washed away by the rising seas.

When the apocalypse happens, please, with all due respect, stay away from me. Just kidding. I see where you are coming from, but I am not sure if I agree with it or not.

Hey people are cool and everything, but we're talking about the survival of the species. It's like getting immunised, it doesn't really matter if an individual refuses as long as most people do not. The important part is "herd immunity". In the world of Brink, we are given to understand that most of humanity has died and that the remainder are sinking into barbarism, or similar. The only safe place that is known of (across the entire world) is the Arc. The only safe place to live with electricity, television, pc's, refrigeration, medical supplies, the medically trained, and so on and so forth is the Arc. The Arc is the last bastion of humanity.

In this situation it's lovely that the Guests are safe and warm when the majority of humanity is cold and dead. However, let's not think for a moment that the Guests arrived in fantastic hundred-person chariots drawn by pegasi and captained by angels. The Guests are the people that made it to the Arc. Some of them were chosen, some of them were lucky, some of them murdered their way onto the boats and planes. They don't deserve to live any more than the billions that died.

My point is that the Arc is (as far as we know, speculation abounds thanks to Ishmael and company) the safest place left on the planet. It is quite probably the largest surviving place of knowledge and technology on the planet. No information we've been given can lead us to believe that there is any other home left for humanity. It must be protected, or humanity as we know it will find it's ultimate demise.

So be nice, and sink. Or get tough, and survive.