How many times do we have to re-hash this argument, and make anologies to automobiles?

It's an inevitability with any Bethesda game. I'm not fussed though because I'm sure the fun of 4 will outweigh the problems.

I'd like them to give up on it already and move to a truly modern engine. I'll be very annoyed if the game still doesn't support tessellation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqQqeEgWb7Q

We're very lucky as a community to have so many people with the correct credentials and engine building experience to comment on such things...

This engine is very much modern.

As far as I know there is no other engine that does what Bethesda wants the engine to do. They would have to tweak and learn a new engine and that would likely add at least a couple of years to making the next game.

This engine is not the same engine as it was for Morrowind, Oblivion, etc. There is constant updates and tweaks to the engine.

Of course, having to learn a new unfamiliar engine would be a source of it's own, all-new bugs.

i feel like they should have it down by now.

It seems as if though bugs are a Bethesda staple. Even before NetImmerse/Gamebryo, Daggerfall had a plethora of bugs accompanying it, and that game had a completely different engine, developed by Bethesda themselves.

Bethesda games have actually been more and more stable, especially at launch, with each iteration. New Vegas is different, since it was developed by Obsidian under time constraints.

Of course, that still puts them behind since they started with the main quest in Daggerfall being straight up impossible to complete on an unpatched game. Bethesda games are buggy, and that really has nothing to do with the engine; Oblivion and the Fallouts weren't the only games to use Gamebryo, after all.

Who cares? Bethesda owns the engine, so they might as well use what they own, instead of licensing someone else's stuff, and have even more bugs.

They could get the Id engine since the parent company does own Id. But still it would take a lot of work and time for Bethesda to learn and tweak the engine for their needs.

id Tech Engines are not designed for Open-World games like TES or Fallout. It's a great engine for making Maps and Linear missions, like Brink, Doom, and Dishonored, but that's because it's what id Tech engines are designed and purposed for. The Creation Engine is purpose built for Open World games.

I was hoping they would use a new engine as well. Mainly from a few things which I think could be improved upon.

- Character AI

The AI in the previous game has been pretty awful. Enemies just charging into battle, not using cover, and no tactics whatsoever.

- Character animation

The animation has always been a bit wonky and stiff. Fluid animation is not Bethesda's strong point. id Tech animation is amazing but I know it can't support a huge open world. Hopefully the animations have gotten a massive upgrade.

- Aiming mechanics

The aiming has always been off for some reason. For a game that claims to be a FPS, it is not a fluid motion and makes you HAVE to use VATS if you want to kill large groups of enemies. Not sure how to describe it except for... "off".

- Destructible Environment

I hope there is more of this. I saw a little bit in the gameplay that was shown at the conference, but nothing seemed next gen about it. I hope they really focused on being able to interact with the environment rather than it just being something pretty to look at.

He excuses himself that it was a mistake, tessellation can't be used for something like weather effects since it's about polygons. Though I guess it might be in.

The game looks decent enough, yet still dated. It doesn't really look on par with other big RPGs of 2014 and 2015, especially characters. And this comes from someone who really loves all Bethesda games that came out in the last 15 years and think they all looked beyond their time. All game engines get updates and tweaks yet sometime later they're switched with something new, done from the ground up. UE3 got tons of updates, went into UE3.5 etc but still UE4 completely blows it away.

yes, I know that bethesda has done a very good job with supporting the mod community and its rare game developers do such a thing nowadays. In this scenario there are certain things you are missing out on. You should see the perspective from a modder that modded since oblivion or morrowind and all the way to skyrim and see the trouble he has run into fixing small issues with his project. You are saying ''access to all their assets'' I don't really think so since alot is still missing. and I'm not talking about making modding easier I'm talking about the support of the creationkit itself and the limitations it has.

Its also hilarious that you think they made the ''modders get paid'' part for the benefit of the modders but that is where you are wrong, bethesda is after all still a company with contracts and such and you should see how much of the overal percentage they could make from paid modding, including Valve taking quite a percentage from the work you make in their benefit.

Also a very good example is the 3 million dollars per day they earn on "Fallout shelter'' and it hasn't even been released on Android yet. (I'm not saying it svcks the app looks fun but its a real business we see here growing)

It's a opinion and a matter I would like to discuss. and I'm pointing out the modding community that largely use the engine to modify the game to their or other players needs and they have had the time to learn more about the engine and certain things that bethesda hasn't given the time to work on.

Mate my comment was directed to the people who complain about the limitations or other [censored] and literally have less than zero professional or academic experience to make their words even worth reading.

People think because they've read a few forum posts and Wikipedia articles that they know what they're talking about.

Beth's "Creation Engine" does seem to have carried forward some legacy quirks from its Gamebryo infancy: Fallout 3 had flying deathclaws, Skyrim has flying mammoths. It still has terrible LOD pop-in too, although they seem to have eliminated much of the accompanying stutter.

The Creation engine doesn't seem to handle animation well, especially facial animation, which still looked quite stilted from what I saw in the demo. Valve's Source engine was doing a much better job 10 years ago.

It will be interesting to see if it can handle multiple NPCs now, because that's always been a handicap. And grass. Beth's grass rendering always brings my PC to a crawl (the grassy swamp around Morthal is very stuttery), yet I can play the grassy and jungled Far Cry 3 without any flora induced problems.

Exactly.

Physical Based Rendering

This is a big deal. Few games use it yet, as it has been used before now primarily by companies like Pixar for pre-rendered 3D movies. (There is a reason a lot of people said the objects in the FO4 trailer looked "Pixar-like" and it wasn't just the brighter colors.) It is a big and hyped new feature in the Unreal 4 and Frostfire engines. That the Creation Engine has this now truly means Bethesda has brought the engine up to modern standards.

For those that don't know what Physical Based Rendering (PBR) is, here is a good breakdown from the description for the upcoming Battlefront game:

With the advances in volumetric lighting and tessellation, Fallout 4 should look very pretty indeed. But it will also likely require a beefy set-up to run on High or Ultra.

https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/physically-based-shading-in-ue4, and gives lots of pictures to explain things.

For an example of PBR running in real time, take a look at Unreal's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNgsbNvkNjE video. Obviously Fallout 4 isn't going to be as demanding as THAT, but most people require a 980 card to run that demo well in real time and get 30fps.

So you are also someone who thinks that Unreal 4 is terrible old crap because they are still using part from the outdated first Unreal.

No further discussion needed.

well that was a quick conclusion I like the unreal engine, especially 4.8 but I want to get to the point for the reason of my answer. It's simply the difference you see ingame. Graphics and detail are by fine standards but the stale copied animations you see on most of the npc's is what removes that immersion you have while playing. I have also encountered this in many other bethesda games. I'm saying that this is not much of big deal but long term it gets quite frustrating.

But animations have NOTHING to do with the game engine. That is purely the work of Bethesda's animators, and would be the same even if they were using Frostbite or Unreal.

I worry about whether or not the drunk drivers on the road are going to end my life during one of my daily commutes. I worry about some kid walking into a church and killing people because he's a delusional idiot.

I do NOT worry about the reuse of a game engine. Or any of the other nonsense that people around here get so worked up about. There are more important things in the world to be worried about.

It wouldn't be to much of a stretch though, for beth to have more than a small set of idles for NPCs to use when they were, well, idle...... Would also be nice if they would make it easier to import NEW animations.... not just replacers.