That will very much depend on what system they use for the animations, Skyrims limitations with new animations came about due to Havok Behaviour graphs.

Lost me on that one. Did the modders simply not have the capability to produce them, or what?

You know it's funny how people rail that these games are a hot buggy mess upon release and I rarely if ever experience any of them. I'm not saying people are lying and they don't happen because I'm sure they do. And I hate it for the folks who have them. But, if something screws up for me it's usually because I've done something to screw it up by being impatient or using the console, lol. But I'm an OCD saver and save every 30 minutes or so anyway, so it's usually a matter of reloading. But most people don't save nearly often enough and have to revert to a save they made 2 weeks ago.

As for the CK being buggy, the only thing I really remember was the huge navmesh problem which they allegedly fixed. I remain skeptical however that it was actually fixed but instead just taped up with duct tape and chicken wire.

You could make them if you had the right versions of 3DS Max but all the extra animations you see in Skyrim were made possible because people like Fore spent a lot of effort modifying specific Behaviour graphs (they basically tell the game how, when another animation can play), and then I think it's only new idle animations no new attacks ( apart from replacers). Zartar might be able to tell you more he spent a lot of effort on the Behaviour graphs.

It does... You could have the best motion captured animations available but if your engine is [censored] they look stupid because they don't interact with the world on a realistic level. Have you never noticed how it looks like Npc's are gliding over the floor in every Bethesda game? This is not an issue with the animations but how the engine processes the animations and movement. Try it out for yourself. Look up some animation mods that look good and see how they look in game. Sure the animations are different but the sort of gliding over the floor isn't gone. That's the engine for you.

So because we have more important stuff to worry about like global warming that means we can't worry about things that don't have as much meaning to you as to other people? That sounds stupid and ignorant. Why wouldn't you worry about the reuse of a game engine? It's not like we have had much advantages, besides being familiar with the engine, from Beth's unwillingness to change to a new engine. Hell on release the games are ALWAYS buggy as hell. But that's a good thing right? (insert sarcasm here) Remember Skyrims memory leak? Yeah it was never fixed by Beth and had to be fixed by modders. Even though they give modders the tools to fix it doesn't mean it's excusable.

This is what happens when you keep building layers of code on top of an outdated engine. It won't properly utilize the resources of your PC because the core of the engine is outdated. Back in 2002 when Bethesda released Morrowind we didn't have Hyperthreading, DirectX 11 and all these new technologies. So if you want to keep using the base of your old engine you'll have to make sure it utilizes the new hardware and software properly. That's a problem when you can't code relatively well like Bethesda. Then you get stuff like memory leaks, crashes and all the other, let's call them oddities, I've encountered.

Sorry but if objects looking like in the trailer is supposed to be a good thing because of PBR then I don't think I want that in the engine, or it isn't implemented properly. It looks like a cartoon in a way. I have to say it looks really nice in the Unreal Engine though. But I'll wait with my judgement until I have seen footage of Fallout 4 with max graphics on a PC as we've only seen the Xbox one version which they probably also used in the trailer.

Bugs scales with the size and complexity of the software, this is why windows tend to get updates who is larger than the size of the original install. (Yes this also includes new features. )

If an game is very linear and predictable its pretty easy to bug test. If its open and chaotic this get very hard. You might get rare bugs who is close to impossible to track down.

Daggerfall was legendary bugged because of money issues they had to release game as it was.

Sorry, but, no. That isn't the engine. Again, it is the animations. I've created animations for numerous engines. "Gliding" happens when the animator hasn't animated the character correctly to correspond to the speed they are moving in-engine. It has nothing to do inherently with the engine. So the animations can look great, but if the animator isn't testing them moving forward in space at the same speed as they do in-engine when walking or running you get gliding. But that IS NOT the engine's fault, unless you count a programmer typing in a value for the movement speed variable as an "engine problem".

Daggerfall generated a completely random world on game installation. Woe to the player that this installation didn't go perfectly..... "An error has occurred, you must resinstall the game......"

Daggerfall had lots of bugs not related to the random world, memory leaks related to storing stuff in houses, it was hard not to break the main quest making it unlikely to finish it in the non patched game.

The random world was not the main problem, yes it caused some random quests (any non main quest) to fail but this was just an reputation loss if it failed so hard you could not just exit and reenter dungeon.

Falling trough the map in dungeon was because of problems with collision map in some parts not how they was used.

But that would mean that literally every modder on the nexus who has released a walking animation mod, and every animator working on walking animations from Morrowind to Skyrim at Bethesda can't make them properly... Trust me I know because I tried out literally EVERY walking animation mod for Oblivion, Fallout and Skyrim because the gliding annoyed the hell out of me. If that's according to you not the engine's fault then they've sure as hell got a problem with animations, and not a little problem either.

I just wish the animations weren't so janky and Bethesda would let us disable vsync.

The game looks fine otherwise.

What do you have against v-sync? Not like there is any difference in game play between 60FPS, and 200 FPS. It's not a first-person shooter, where milliseconds of reaction time count.

Most of those modders are amateurs or just importing animations from other sources and games and tweaking them.

Game engines can make it easier to animate, they can make it harder, but they don't just jack-up perfectly good animations.

I want my games to be feel as responsive and connected as possible. I don't want to play a movie.

VSync always adds lag that makes my input feels like my mouse and keyboard are submerged underwater. Most pc games let me disable vsync but for the ones that don't are frustrating. Like the Bethesda games and a lot of console ports such as Ikaruga, Pac-Man, Dark Souls, etc.

And we've already found a solution to screen tearing/juddering in G-Sync/Freesync. So Bethesda not being able to acknowledge this new technology makes my head hurt.

This dev is owned by the same entity that runs id, so I don't see why Bethesda can't give us the best options.

Hhhmmm.... I don't have any issues with lag with v-sync enabled.

Wonder if disabling v-sync, but using some flavor of framerate limiter would change the scene at all.

Turn off Triple Buffering. That's why you are getting input lag with VSYNC on.

If you are using NVIDIA, you can do in on a per game level in the NVIDIA control panel.

Honestly I hope this iteration of the Creation Engine doesn't have issues with the fps reaching over 60 as Skyrim did where things would randomly explode and fly.

I also hate how things go flying all over the place with you merely bumping into them or how everything on a table sudden floats a little when you pick up a single object on it.

Still getting killed by a bucket was somewhat fun though in Skyrim.

Here is hoping we can turn the objects we pick up kinda like in Amnesia.

Some of those issues may also come from collision on the objects which are only approximations and sometimes very rough, and if the properties aren't setup all that well.

Actually, a company called Gamebase purchased the Gamebryo engine after Emergent went bankrupt and currently licensesthe software to over 150 other companies, Bethesda being one of them. Although pretty much the only thing Beth is utilizing at this point is the NIF file format.

I think that issue came from the Havoc Physics Engine.

Gamebryo animations still work in Skyrim, just not on Actors.

Bethesda never pushed the gamebryo limit to its knees. Any decent modder could have told you that. There was a lot of features (such as advanced graphics, aim down sight, faster FPS , nice crafting, player house building, factions, voice acting improvements, animation improvements>) that were just missing that modders scratched there heads wondering why bethesda hasn't jumped at the opportunity yet. I myself did this; all of these features would have taken a few days with the amount of employees they have at their disposal. I can tell you, unless the gamebryo engine has improved significantly throughout these past couple of years, this game will break the engine. It will push it to the bounds of whats possible. So stop begging for a new engine, you have no idea what's coming. If you don't like it after Fallout 4, then feel free to resume the begging. But no sense in asking for a new engine when you don't even know what the current one can do.

Theres also the issue of tradeoffs to consider. What is bethesda LOOSING by switching to another engine. Considering Fallout/TES are the only games with REAL open world functionalities...that. There is no other engine that has proved to do half what the gamebryo has. Tell me one game that has more. Most games have the same old system of going into an area and recieving one main quest with like 5 sidequests. I call this linear misc questing. This svcks. I don't know of a single game that truly allows you to go anywhere at any time and complete all the quests (which are unrelated to each other) in ever possible linear combination possible. You have no idea what this next engine will look like.

Bethesda knows what its doing. They're not choosing the gamebryo engine because they don't want to learn something new. No one in this thread has given an example of a better engine or explained why it would be a better engine. Maybe that's because a better engine doesn't exist and you're asking for heaven on earth.

sry, didn't mean to bore, i usually tend to keep away from oh the engine type threads, so i hadn't heard it before

From a personal modding perspective I would be happy if they threw the Havok animation in the bin and went back to Gamebryo.

so, apart from the engine's source code , what specifically would that be an example for that "lot that's missing", and what would specifically be such limitations of the ck? seriously asking, i wouldn't know what that'd be. (we even get the script source, totally not needed for the game to run)

hell yeah, just as you're saying, they're a friggin' _business_, and i _do_want_ them to make money so they can keep on doing what they're doing.

and not only is it only fair they'd take a share from what a mod would earn, since they made everything it's based on, down to a distribution platform after all, but what you don't seem to be aware of is:

1) any artist who makes, say, a book, a record etc from scratch is jumping for joy if he gets 10% of sales out of his contract. the 25% or what that'd have been they'd have given us is a pretty good share compared to that

2) taking myself as an example, i'm a freelance artist in real life, i svck in business matters, and the less i got to worry about it the better. other follks i know excel at these kinds of stuff and make more money out of what i do than i could myself if at all, so i'll gladly give them a share of that money i wouldn't have made at all without them in the first place for doing so. that's just what it is, and there's just _totally_nothing_wrong_ with this, i just seriously don't get that whoah they take a share wailing, OF COURSE they take a share, it'd just NOT be fair if they didn't. and if it's a fair deal or exploitation is just about what's in the contract and the share you get, see 1

and to that, if there's ONE company that, if tomorrow money'd be abandoned for good and everything was for free for everyone, i think would precisely continue doing what they're doing without regard, that be beth.

well what can i say, just don't buy them surprise packs or what that is if you don't like the idea. and again: they're a business. the folks who made fallout shelter got rents to pay and stuff. so what, really?