Why is critique oh so often labeled as "whining?" The developers and the consumers both share the responsibility of keeping TES afloat. Take either out of the equation, and things collapse. Though you may be of a different opinion, there are some serious stylistic complaints and objections in the concepts that Bethesda sought to implement with TES:IV, like fast travel and the quest compass. There exists some serious contention in the absence of countless weapons, spell effects, and various customization options. People don't appreciate seeing the series in which they have invested so much time go down a stylistic road they don't approve of. And if a significant enough portion of the consumer base feels that disapproval, you've got problems. Oblivion has been widely successful, yes. How many of those sales were because of the previous titles in the series? How many purchased Oblivion because of Morrowind or Daggerfall in the first month or year of Oblivion's release?

With that in mind, realize that M'Aiq's comments are little more than inflammatory. These boards were almost completely aflame after the developers began revealing those contentious concepts. What was the point in pouring salt into the wound?


No one here dislikes M'Aiq's lines because they feel they're being personally insulted. They dislike M'Aiq's lines BECAUSE he's taking a jab at the ideas which the devs didn't implement and then went out of their way to scorn. Why shouldn't people get pissed at being told the things that they had come to expect from an ES title were worthless inclusions?

Not only that, I'm not saying they're wrong, nor am I calling being displeased with Oblivion's development decision whining, and trying to claim that I was is just trying to is simply obfuscating the point.

And I fail to see how relevant it is that there are plenty of people who played Oblivion before experiencing any previous TES titles. Bethesda aims to make sales. The developers' job is to market the game, to make it appeal to a large audience.

Maiq's comments aren't inflammatory because of their nature, they're inflammatory because some people just can't stand being told what's what. And that's the fact that Bethesda isn't here to cater to everyone's personal desires.

In which way does oblivion "aim for the wider audience"?

In making the combat more entertaining(and somewhat more realistic) by removing fail systems? In adding fast travel and giving players the choice to use or not use it? By making it look better?

Stop acting like some elitist [censored]. Oblivion follows the natural progression of a TES games, in which its more entertaining to play than the previous game, with only the small group of hardcoe MW players calling it a disappointment.

If it were up to the hardcoe MW players, oblivion would've been MW4, complete with its cluttered journal, dated graphic, and bad and goofy animations.

Don't forget the nonsensical weapon missing.

I'm starting to sense that this thread is turning in to a Oblivion vs Morrowind thread.

So STOP it and get back to the topic!

I see ya fail to read ThatOneGuy's post at all.

While that they are making Oblivion for wider audience ie console user, they also assume they cannot handle a huge RPG at the same time, thus cutting thing here and there to the point of streamlining the game. Even the Dev admitted this and if they would they would go back and remake Oblivion into an RPG, they would.

Its inflammatory that the its really that of the Dev voice for assuming things what the players want, but only receive a HUGE backlash from the community.


The combat is not realistic at all. Daggerfall wins on such battle system. In Oblivion, it is ridiculous that ya keep hitting the foe ALOT of time just to kill them. Not to mention the combat is base on the Player's action, NOT the status action, making it a hell lot more Action adventure then an RPG.

Its not really a good idea to call other or assume other "elitist [censored]". Insulting and name calling other people will not be tolerated here.

And it is really sad ya assume that Morrowind players want Morrowind 2. That is so wrong in so many ways. Its more that the expectation that Oblivion would grand and epic for an RPG, but many content from the franchise itself was remove and not many new thing were added in return. It lost content.


Assumption that people only use bow and arrow for marksmen and not other tool is just bad as to even thinking removing the spear thinking people would just use swords and blunt weapon.


Not a vs of Morrowind.

Actually, that is their marketing department's job.


This I'll agree with, but large-spread appeal/accessibility and complexity are not mutually exclusive. As is being discussed in http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1030046


Yet when enough people have the same personal desires, it no longer is the company neglecting to cater to individual or small group preference. It's the company creating a schism in their fanbase based on large-scale aggregate tastes in RPG game design.


Discussion of the finer points of contention with those topics and a whole lot more can be found in http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1015259 http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1022938&st=0&start=0 http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1025354


Stop slapping the stereotype of elitist [censored] on those who disagree with you. Your opinion that ES:IV is more entertaining than the previous title(s) is just that, an opinion, and an easily debatable one at that. Further, you're posting in TES General. 75% of the people who post on here are elitist [censored]s based on that narrow definition.


Unfortunately, the original topic is trying to create interpretation out of what Bethesda has been saying via M'Aiq. And right now, you're looking at the result of said interpretations.

I read his post. I also failed to see the relevance. It doesn't matter if they're streamlining, they need to market their product. Period.



Judging by the success and popularity of Oblivion, I wouldn't say that the forums here constitute an accurate representation of the community. Or that you seem to think only the minority of TES' fan base has a clue as to what the game should be.



Clearly Morrowind has a more realistic combat system than Oblivion. After all, it makes perfect sense to aim right at something, thrust your spear into it, and magically miss. It also makes sense that blocking is an involuntary action.



And yet its only the small, hard core minority that finds displeasure with Oblivion.



Look above, because you totally misread what I said.



You're right. It's just turning into an Oblivion-bashing thread. Morrowind is better, Daggerfall is better, Oblivion has besmirched the good name of TES, blah blah blah.

:facepalm: Damn it everyone, stop this crap and get back to making Maiq quotes! That means you Aphotic, ThatOneGuy, and Qawsed Asap :nono:

Anyway: "Maiq hears tales of vampires of werewolves fighting each other. Maiq also hears that they fight somewhere under the world. Maiq thinks this silly."

"Maiq has heard people wanting to live in Skyrim, with lots of snow. Maiq doesnt like snow, too cold, not enough color."

:D To both the rebuke and the M'Aiq line. Especially that M'Aiq line.

"M'Aiq has heard of men who wish to become Daedra. M'Aiq pities their attempts."

"M'Aiq hears some people wish to cut off limbs. M'Aiq thinks this is silly; he likes his limbs right where they are."

Where's your Maiq quote hrmm?

"Maiq picked up his fork the other day, but Maiq forgot how to use it and kept slashing at his dinner. Maqi wishes to remember how to properly use his fork; Maqi is getting hungry and doesn't want to get his hands dirty."

Edit, bah got me with the edit

Well heck alright then. Though I wonder how many would get that quote's reference.

"Maiq heard of such cloth that can heal ya from the wound. But Maiq find it easier to sleep or cast a spell."

"Maiq hears that it is illegal to sleep within city walls, but Maiq does it all the time!"

"M'Aiq hears some wish for Alkosh to slow time when they fight. M'Aiq thinks it would be much more fun for them to just fight slowly instead."

"M'Aiq has heard some wish for inter-breeding. M'Aiq does not know why. Orc-gonians would be hideous."

Orc-gonians lol, good 1

"Some people think guards do their jobs too well, catching you too easily, but if guards want to catch Maiq, maybe Maiq should be caught"

Reference to the power of the physic guards, which see through walls, and hear what goes on in far away locked basemants in the wilderness.

Oh and nice touch with the Orc-gonians Thatoneguy :goodjob:

I didn't say they were "dumb"... I merely alluded to the fact that political intrigue is absent from Oblivion as a result of the main-streaming affect that the large influx of console users (couch sitters, in my line above) into the TES series had on the gameplay and background content.

"M'aiq knows that some want to decorate their houses. M'aiq also knows they are silly for wasting their time as objects randomly fly around here, undoing all their hard work".

No, the political intrigue is absent from Oblivion because it wasn't meant to be a political game. It has nothing to do with the capabilities of the intended audience, and more the fact that's not what the developers were trying to do. Heck, Morrowind wasn't all that political - unless "politics" means "go fetch for me until I like you enough" and it wasn't aimed at console users.

I have to wonder if the same sense of righteous indignation about "dumbing down" happened at Morrowind's release from Daggerfall fans. I wasn't really paying attention to the forums back then.

I'm sure it was there. Those that resented the release of the dumb-down version of daggerfall called Morrowind probably went back to playing their pen and paper rpgs.

"M'aiq likes swords. M'aiq likes swinging swords at enemies even more! M'aiq even remembers when he would swing at an enemy and nothing would happen... M'aiq still has nightmares about those awful times."

Maiq hears of powerful sword in the land. Hidden in mountain, and covered in horse droppings.

"Maiq wishes he could write. He has ink quill and paper, but sadly he cannot write. He can read, but not write."

You are not alone Maiq

"Maiq remembers time when he could speak to daedra, dragons and woodland creatures. Sadly Maiq forgot how."

Reference to the skills in daggerfall which allowed you to learn the language of certain creatures.

Nice ones, you guys :goodjob:

"Some people want to be jump through windows, M'aiq doesn't. Jumping through glass never ends up good. M'aiq thinks that if you want get into a building, that you should go through the door."

About being able to enter a building through windows.

"M'aiq hears people talk about wanting to move to Akavir. Why would people want to move there? If M'aiq lived there, he would be alone, and there would be nobody for him to tell his fabulous stories to."

About how people want TES:V to take place in Akavir.

"M'aiq knows that the people of Morrowind give other people clear and decent directions. Why others don't use them is unknown to M'aiq."

Reference to complaints about wandering aimlessly in Morrowind.

"M'aiq knows that some want to bring back the Dwemer. How M'aiq asks though. The Dwemer were here and now they are gone. They were quite short or perhaps they were not. Either way, the Dwemer have left us and M'aiq knows they will never return nor will the Dwemer reveal their secrets."

Reference to request of the Dwemer to returning or giving players the ability to learn their secrets.

"M'aiq here's that the nobles of the Illiac Bay aren't just people in cheap clothes. The nobles actually get things done. Why the nobles of Cyrodil wear cheap clothes and do nothing but eat, sit, and sleep is unknown to M'aiq."

Reference to how Daggerfall is full of politics and Oblivion has none.

"M'aiq wonders why people walk everywhere and avoid creatures instead of forming transportation systems. M'aiq guesses that the people of Cyrodil haven't realized horses are faster."

Reference to how there is no carriage travel, boats, or guild guides in Oblivion.

"M'aiq knows many decent necromancers. Why that idiot Traven banned necromancy is unknown to M'aiq. M'aiq wishes he could help those poor, misunderstood necromancers."

Reference to how the MG banned necromancers for no reason and that you must kill all necromancers instead of being allowed to join them. Also, the idiot part was directed toward an NPC, NOT players. Just wanted to make sure there were no misunderstandings.