Super excited for Skyrim, seriously cant wait. But I assumed that the monsters levels would scale with you like in oblivion and most recently in dead island.

Now I've learned that they don't...I'm kind of concerned.

Part of the games appeal is to go anywhere you want and do what you want..this is not going to be true when areas have set high levels, it will be like in fallout where you literally cant go to certain areas until you level up enough unless you wanna get stomped by death claws. That seems very..MMOish. It a sense its not really open world then, you can go to A B and C at level 1, then at level 15 C D and F, at level 20 etc

Secondly....ironic I know after posting that first concern, is the games actual challenge, you level up by playing and doing things, but if areas don't level with you wont it be rather easy to ether accidentally or intentionally over level areas so you just crush them as opposed to beating them skillfully..again this seems MMOish.

I really liked the scaling in oblivion, like it even more in dead island, you still felt like you progressed because you obtained better weapons and more skills, but the game retained its challenge. The only complaint I had about the system in oblivion is that certain creatures wouldn't spawn until you hit a certain level, and others would disappear. Which was silly, the way it was implemented was flawed but the over all idea of the system was good.

I want to level up and get better, But I don't want whether I win or lose a fight to be based on my level.

In an mmo you can run up to an enemy of your level click auto attack walk away and get a sandwich and win, fight an enemy higher then you, and you can use all the skills and tactics in the world and you are not winning that fight.

I don't want Skyrim to be like that, I don't want to be defeating this creature because its my level, and getting murdered by this one because its a higher level, that has nothing to do with me at all, the game might as well play itself. My input is meaningless, my victory or defeat is already predetermined by what level I am and what level they are. How the fight actually happens is irrelevant.

I know a lot of people didn't like the scaling system in oblivion, I liked its purpose, that it let you go wherever you wanted and always made the monsters an appropriate challenge but I agree it was implemented poorly, I just wished that they had refined it rather then scrap it altogether.

I sincerely hope my worries are for nothing, the game looks amazing in every way other then this, I just don't want it to be like a single player MMO. Maybe I missed a piece of information somewhere..I don't know.

You are the last of a dying breed my friend. Most gamers did not care for it in the end.

You are one of the few that liked level scaling in Oblivion..

Out of the four components of Oblivion's leveling system (Enemy Leveling, which controls when enemies appear; Enemy Scaling, which controls the strength of enemies once they have appeared; Loot Leveling, which controls when loot appears; and Loot Scaling which controls the strength of loot once it has appeared) the only one I really disliked was item leveling.

For me, one of the things that made exploration fun in Morrowind was the chance of stumbling across some hand-placed item in a dungeon or under some bed in somebody's bedroom. This was almost entirely missing in Oblivion. Nearly every single piece of gear in the game was leveled. You would never see, for instance, a single piece of Elven armor anywhere in the game - ever - until you reached level 15. Don't even think about looking for it. It isn't there.

This just svcked a lot of the fun out of the game for me. It destroyed much of the world's immersiveness. Flooding Cyrodiil with Dwarven armor at level 6, then Orcish armor at level 10, then Ebony armor at level 15, then Daedric at level 20 only made me aware that I was playing a video game.

The other three leveling mechanics didn't bother me much. I was pretty happy with the rest of it.

Thank the gods for Oscuro's mod. I hated Oblivion's leveling system.

The level system in Oblivion removed any real sense of danger for me. I knew I could travel anywhere and not be concerned about getting my tail kicked. I don't want the world handed to me on a silver platter, I want to earn the right to explore those dangerous places by getting stronger. Morrowind had the perfect sense of balance here and I'm happy that Skyrim is following suit.

What I hated about Oblivion's scaling system is that I didn't feel more powerful the more I level up. Bandits showing with full glass sets, marauders with freakin daedric. Bandits must be poor right? So why do they fricken have full glass sets? they should be capped at having iron armor or silver at MOST. I heard in Skyrim, the scaling is different, for example Fire Dragons capped at lvl 20, Frost Dragons capped at lvl 30 and so on. We've also seen Orcs wearing Orc Armor even when Todd was lvl 34, if it was oblivion, those orcs would be wearing full Daedric sets, so it's all good I think

Oblivion is messed up in that aspect, seriously.
Fighting a BANDIT wearing a [censored] Daedric Armor, supposed to be the armor of Daedra lords, it's [censored] ridiculous.

I've never seen anyone argue that they should be able to start the game and go pick whatever weapons, items, or spells they felt like using at level 1. Why? B/c it would make all the base level ones just get skipped in favor of better ones. In RPGs people understand/accept that they will work up to better weapons and spells as their character becomes more accomplished.

Likewise, I think certain compelling but dangerous locations should be less accessable at level 1, because it leaves places I must skill and return to once I've grown into a much stronger hero.

Places like vampire's lairs, dragon's caves, and many other highly dangerous and interesting places shouldn't be accessable to level 1 characters.

Since in ES 99% of the danger is deep down in dungeons, the vast majoriy of the surface world would still be open to level 1 players; but a few surface locations and many cave/dungeons should be far to deadly for a level 1 character to enter.

I loathe level scaling. It a way for the game to cheat on you in my opinion.

I think I prefer a game with areas of too high difficulty, places where even playerskill is just not enough. It would be like climbing Red Mountain; I'm bound to die to Dagoth Ur or any ash vampire nekkid. Oblivion was rather lenient; I think Skyrim is trying to find the "nice medium." The inbetween. Explorable, but with greater dangers; if what the developers describe is true, you get rewarded with better prizes for exploring higher-lvl areas.

So anybody even commented on the thread itself...

Like how there's going to be a level-scaling in Skyrim, just like with every other TES game and most RPGs out there...
Except there will be minimum and maximum levels on certain areas and others will remember the level you entered it so it won't spam high level enemies out of nowhere when you return.

Exactly. It looks like Bethesda are aiming for a best-of-both-worlds system in Skyrim.

I didn't mind the scaling in Oblivion, except the item scaling was ridiculous.

Very odd seeing daedric armour/weapons on every bandit out there... very silly.

Liked Fallout 3's leveling system so I don't think i'll have any problems with Skyrim.

I despised the level and item scaling in OB. Pointless to level because the world levelled with you. I want the world not to care how strong I am. I want it to hand my ass to me for not being careful. I want to be scared of encountering something too strong for me then the satisfaction of going back and showing it what for. It's not MMOish imho, since unlevelled game worlds existed before MMOs

Today I eard that Skyrim will be scaled and that was the first bad news for me about this game.

What I didn't like in the scaling system is that you can feel powerful only if you stop leveling up. I explain, in Oblivion if you only focus to up your magic and 2 others to 100 and stop sleeping, you were invincible. But if you wanted to have an average character, you would be weaker compared to the scaled level.
So the more you are playing, the weaker you are, and I think that is an absolute non sense.

Please Bethesda, if you can, add an option in the game to be able to choose if we want the scaling system or not.

I don't want to wait for a mod :confused:

Level scaling was the worst mechanic I've ever experienced in any RPG ever. I'm not being flippant about saying that. To me, it was literally the most awful thing I have ever experienced in an RPG.

I would say that the rest of the game was amazing. Especially as I started to get into the creation kit. But whoever thought that scaling was ok in an RPG was dead wrong.

The funny thing is that Oblivion was so successful that they might think their world leveling system was somewhat successful.


A heads up to them that I think they've already realized:






Worst RPG mechanic ever implemented by an RPG oriented game designer. Please learn from your mistakes and spend a little more time on placement of leveled enemies and encounters. It matters.

haha yeah... good times.. What was it that high level goblins dropped again? was it elven maces?

Hmmm.. glass armor from the bandits right outside the Imperial City. Hmmm.... Hmmmmmmmmm............

Nope, don't like it.

Well, Oblivion's level scaling didn't make any sense. In most games, you level to face challenge that you can't with low levels. In Oblivion, the more you level, the harder it gets. In addition, it isn't very realistically that suddenly wolves and imps disappear of the world to be substitued by minotaurs and Land Dreughs.

In Skyrim, as in Morrowind and Fallout 3 and NV, it makes much more sense. Hidden areas, far from civilization, in the mountains are inhabited by terrible creatures, while near cities you find wolves and bandits. This is not MMORPGish, as you say at all. Most RPGs are like this, and the game is still as open as always (I don't really know if you get the meaning of open world): you can go whenever you go but, of course, some places are going to be very hard, or even impossible... as it should be.

I agree, level-scaling enemies was an appalling game mechanic in Oblivion. I think you've misunderstood how it's supposed to work in Skyrim though. In Skyrim enemies/dungeons do scale, to an extent, but they have a minimum and a maximum level, and they are locked to whatever level the player first encounters them at. So:

Area X has minimum level of 10, maximum level of 15.

Scenario 1: Level 5 player enters Area X. Area X enemies set at level 10. If player comes back later, Area X still at level 10, regardless of player's level.

Scenario 2: Level 12 player enters Area X. Area X enemies set at level 12. If player comes back later, Area X still at level 12, regardless of player's level.

Scenario 3: Level 20 player enters Area X. Area X enemies set at level 15. If player comes back later, Area X still at level 15, regardless of player's level.

That's my understanding, anyway. It sounds like a very elegant solution to Oblivion's ridiculous system. I just hope they apply the same logic to enemy gear, because a bandit wearing full Daedric armour just makes no sense.

You mean like the rediculously tough Yao Guai!

I agree with you BUT at level 50 or so you should feel powerful enough the face everything, but not without some powerful creatures that prove a challenge once in a while

Of course. You should still find zones where you can fight enemies that suppose a challenge, not doubt about that.



Hmmm... I don't really know if that's sarcasm or not. I mean, Yao Guais were supposed to be powerful, but I remember that I managed to killed one at level 2... actually, with Mart's Mutants Mod I was killing Enclave guys and super hiper mega Supermutants from the Enclave, added by that mod.

I think it would be better if they capped each type of enemy rather than capping enemies depending on their location though.

Oh, and another thing. If a level 1 player goes around all of Skyrim, would all Areas be capped at level 1? Nvm :banghead: