The Schools of Magic

Post » Sun May 15, 2011 6:28 pm

This is one of those things that I *THINK* I understand but still am not quite sure, so I'm writing it down to have the real lore buffs check over it.

So basically Vanus Galerion invented 'schools of magic' by looking at all spell effects known to him and grouping together the ones he thought here cast in a similar manner. The original grouping ignored spell effects in the groups, and it just happened that each school contained effects of similar type (although it makes sense, a way of thought meant to destroy is likely the base of any destruction spell, with the chosen element simply caked on top.) This is why each school is a skill; if you are proficient at casting one illusion spell you basically have it down for most of the others.

So here is my breakdown of the schools:

Alteration Making a fantasy for yourself
We are lucky, Reality and Other Falsehoods directly tells us how Alteration is cast.
"To master Alteration, first accept that reality is a falsehood. There is no such thing. Our reality is a perception of greater forces impressed upon us for their amusemant... To cast Alteration spells is to convince a greater power that it will be easier to change reality as requested than to leave it alone. Do not assume that these forces are sentient. Our best guess is that they are like wind and water. Persistent but not thoughtful. Just like directing the wind or water, diversions are easier than outright resistance. Express the spell as a subtle change and it is more likely to be successful. "

So basically you are persuading physics to break itself without literally asking water to let you walk on it. So how do you do it? One convinces HIMSELF that you have persuaded water to let you walk on it. Or rather, that you naturally would be able to, it's water isn't it? from Breathing water, "Seryne pointed to the small silver fish darting along the water's edge: 'They don't find it so. They breath water just fine.'
'But that's not magic.' 'What I'm saying to you, boy, is that it is.'"

So alteration is largely making a fantasy for yourself and then adding magic to it; the raw potential energy will make your reality exist – at least for a while.

Illusion: Magic to alter an opponent's perspective of reality
In terms of what they do, the main difference between Illusion and Alteration is that Alteration actually changes physics while Illusion just makes the target percieve things differently.

“You see, it's all concerned with magicka's ability to alter the perception of objects without changing their physical compositions. Removing sensual data, for example, to cast darkness or remove sound or smell from the air."

“Certainly,” smiled Massitha. “Nothing changed in the vampire's form, except its ability to move. Like I said, it's a very useful School.”

I believe Illusion to be tampering with your target's perception of reality. It is in fact the opposite of Alteration; in Alteration you alter your own perception of reality and then apply magic. With Illusion one uses magic to alter an opponent's perspective of reality. Think of the Eragon books, and the magical mind-reading in that is basically how I view illusion in TES.

This brings up a good point though; with enough willpower and mental fortitude someone could ignore an illusion spell such as Paralyze.

Thaumaturgy: unknown
Very little is known about Thaumaturgy and it only appears in Daggerfall. I would imagine it is somewhere between Illusion and Alteration; it's spells were split between those schools.

Destruction: Raw magic
Destruction is probably also somewhat similar to Illusion, Bero would have needed some reason for suggesting they be merged. However, on it's own, I can find no quotes about how it works. Left to guess, I have come up with my own theory. Where as in Illusion the Magica is applied to alter someone's perception, in Destruction a spell might start out similar and then have the magica applied directly. We know that light is a form of magica in TES, so lightning and fire are both very crude versions of it. Further, a frost spell could simply be doing the opposite of a fire spell.

When it comes to damaging armor or stats, the addition of potential energy with very few instructions – not even light on fire or shoot like a bolt – would surely matter. The skill in these spells is applying magica to the right thing.


Mysticism The old way; wild magic
One of the oldest forms of refined magic in TES.
"Mysticism seems to derive its power from its cunundrums and paradoxes; the act of experimentation, no matter how objectively implemented, can influence the magicka by its very existance. Thus, the Mystic mage must regulate himself to finding consistant patterns in an imbroglio of energy. In the time it takes him to find a source with a consistant trigger and result, his peers researching in other schools may have researched and documented dozens of new spells and effects. The Mystic mage is a patient and uncompetitve scholar."

“The common man looks at an object and fits it into a place in his way of thinking. Those skilled in the Old Ways, in the way of the Psijic, in Mysticism, can see an object and identify it by its proper role. But one more layer is needed to be peeled back to achieve understanding. You must identify the object by its role and its truth and interpret that meaning."

My theory on this has largely been impacted by that it is the oldest known form of magic. A mysticist feels the natural flow of magic in the world (think how in the real world heat from the sun causeless wind currents, in Tes magica from the sun probably does similar things) [EDIT] they likely tap into the Earth Bones, the souls of spirits that gave themselves entirely to creation) and affects them with his or her own reserve. (a soul is a form of magic) [/EDIT] This explains detect magics the best, the caster feels how the natural flow of magica reacts to the object

Enchant
"'A simple spell cast once, no matter how skillfully and no matter how spectacularly, is ephemeral, of the present, what it is and no more,' sighed Magister Ilther. 'But placed in a home, it develops into an almost living energy, maturing and ripening so only its surface is touched when an unskilled hand wields it. You must consider yourself a miner, digging deeper to pull forth the very heart of gold.'"

Adding magic to an object, implanting it within.

Conjuration Control.

From these I have gathered that, with the application of potential energy (magica) the easiest part of conjuration is the conjuring. An apprentice can summon an extremely powerful daedroth from oblivion, and a journeyman could probably summon things to him from Akavir. This is done by reaching out mentally and connecting with what you want to summon (you can only use conjuration on living things, inanimate objects fall under mysticism.) If it wants to come, or you can force it to do so with or without a protonymic, it will. This is why master conjurers form a mental link with eachother; they are experts at reaching out with their minds.

Sources: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-doors-oblivion,
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/frostfall-3e-432
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-frostfall-book-ten-2920-last-year-first-era

Restoration
Honestly i've pored over the In-game books but I CAN'T FIGURE THIS OUT


Necromancy Rituals.
The raising of the dead. Honestly this is the simplest school and all i had to go from was http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-preparation-corpse.

The caster puts magic into the target, raising it since the target really is just lacking a soul and souls are a form of extremly unrefined magic.
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Klaire
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 9:45 am

Well you can conjure armor, I'm not sure the inanimate is outside of Conjuration's jursidiction.
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m Gardner
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 12:21 pm

Well you can conjure armor, I'm not sure the inanimate is outside of Conjuration's jursidiction.

Bound armors are lesser daedra that naturally take that shape. However, it does have a soul and talks according to lore.
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TWITTER.COM
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 7:56 pm

Bound armors are lesser daedra that naturally take that shape. However, it does have a soul and talks according to lore.

Really? Hmm.
That sounds like it could get really hilarious.
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Kayla Bee
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 5:12 pm

why do you think there's no bound codpiece?
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kirsty joanne hines
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 2:04 pm

why do you think there's no bound codpiece?

That's a subject that had never crossed my mind....
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Alba Casas
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 12:05 pm

Why would you need a codpiece in the first place with your cloth chastity belt?

A few suggestions:

Mysticism: My understanding from 'Mysticism' was that the school of magic (maybe not the College of study) was a catch-all for different and varied quirks and contradictions of magicka. . "But these effects are simply that: effects." This seems to imply that there isn't one set way of casting a Mystic spell. But that doesn't help bring a unified skill forward like you're trying to do, I know.

Alteration: I'd phrase it more as, using Magicka to shape reality (if temporarily) to your will.

Necromancy: Just to be clear, you're saying that it's the school that manipulates soul-magick? Or that it's about a predefined set of rules given by those more powerful? Both?

Restoration: Withershins probably gives the most in-depth look, even if the spell it details lies outside the Guild's approved spell list, even if it is fiction. If we theorize that there are certain attributes to the living body (that go beyond the 7 physical attributes) that extend slightly into the conceptual/symbolic level, then we can theorize that Restoration is applying magic/energy to those attributes. I'm uncertain where resist paralysis would fit in since it covers the magic effect (an illusion) and the poison effect (theoretically a neurotoxin or some Nirni equivalent), but whatever. Zaki's problem was that his life had grown too mundane and linear, the spell jumbled his life up randomly.

Alternatively, it could be the reverse of destruction, since it restores abilities that destruction damages.
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sw1ss
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 9:08 pm

You think there's an inch of separation between enchantment and necromancy? Balls, man.
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kyle pinchen
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 9:25 am

You think there's an inch of separation between enchantment and necromancy? Balls, man.

I actually do. Have you ever played redguard?
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Robert Garcia
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 8:08 pm

Isn't "Arcana Restored" about restoration magic?
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maria Dwyer
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 9:44 pm

Isn't "Arcana Restored" about restoration magic?

It only talks about things like the arena Basin of Renewal and those bloodfonts in oblivion.
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Wane Peters
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 7:16 am

It only talks about things like the arena bloodfont and those in oblivion.

So that means Restoration magic is bloodfont in miniature then.
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Benji
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 11:46 am

I forget who it was that said this, but Alteration is the changing the "world's view" and Illusion is changing a person(s)' view. A master at Alteration could physically change trees into rocks, straw into gold, wood into water, calm days into tumultuous storms, etc.... Illusion changes the person's perception, whether it be yourself, an opponent(s), or both. Illusion doesn't physically change anything, only how you and every other person views them. Being invisible isn't changing physical properties; it's just bending light in a certain way.

Thaumaturgy was redundant of Mysticism and Alteration, so I'm glad they removed it in TESIII. Removing Mysticism from TESV pissed me off, though.

Destruction uses elements but in a destructive manner. However, if it were real, you'd be able to use the elemental energies for far more things than just destruction. Refrigerating foods, cooking, staying warm, etc... It probably should have been named Elemental magic and not Destructive magic. But TES is a combat-based CRPG so Destruction fits better.

Mysticism is my favorite and is my character's main area of focus (I'm still mad they removed it from TESV) and I view it as a college of study where one tries to understand the properties of other-worldly concepts and magic outside the laws and principles of the EarthBones. That's why things like teleportation, silence, spell reflection, etc... fit well in this category. Other spells that would fit would be things like portal-teleportation, time-travel, changing laws of gravity and thermodynamics, animating inanimate objects like chairs, etc... to come to life.

Conjuration has always irked me the way they have it set up in the TES series. It is soooooo freakin limited. You can only conjure weapons/armor/fighting monsters like lesser daedra. Why? Because the TES series is a combat-oriented CRPG. But I think if conjuration were real, you'd be able to conjure forks, paper, books, clothes, water, any physical object really, depending on how good you were at this avenue of study. Conjuration works by summoning a lesser daedra in the form of something, which it then disppears. Yeah, I understand the reasoning for that is so Players wouldn't exploit it by conjuring weapon after weapon and then sell it or use it to fight, etc... But I think as you become more of a master, a person could learn how to conjure up actual items, not lesser daedra. Although that might be a combination of mysticism & conjuration.


Restoration, I don't see why you couldn't use to restore withered plants/trees, although I myself am not sure what it is doing either. I would think you could give life back to something that was once dead if you were good enough at it. Not just animate the already dead.


Necromancy, from what I've read and seen, just animates things that are already dead. Not sure how it would work on flora. But because the TES games are so limited and mostly focus on battle/combat, there isn't much creative thought put into the workings of all these spells as to what they could actually potentially do. And that svcks.
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Sophie Payne
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 11:33 am

Destruction uses elements but in a destructive manner. However, if it were real, you'd be able to use the elemental energies for far more things than just destruction. Refrigerating foods, cooking, staying warm, etc... It probably should have been named Elemental magic and not Destructive magic. But TES is a combat-based CRPG so Destruction fits better.

But it's not all elemental, there are also effects that damage attributes and armor.


Mysticism is my favorite and is my character's main area of focus (I'm still mad they removed it from TESV) and I view it as a college of study where one tries to understand the properties of other-worldly concepts and magic outside the laws and principles of the EarthBones. That's why things like teleportation, silence, spell reflection, etc... fit well in this category. Other spells that would fit would be things like portal-teleportation, time-travel, changing laws of gravity and thermodynamics, animating inanimate objects like chairs, etc... to come to life.

I didn't even think of the earthbones. But your right; the interplay of the earthbones is a much more documented source of 'wild magic' than convection currents.

Conjuration has always irked me the way they have it set up in the TES series. It is soooooo freakin limited. You can only conjure weapons/armor/fighting monsters like lesser daedra. Why? Because the TES series is a combat-oriented CRPG. But I think if conjuration were real, you'd be able to conjure forks, paper, books, clothes, water, any physical object really, depending on how good you were at this avenue of study. Conjuration works by summoning a lesser daedra in the form of something, which it then disppears. Yeah, I understand the reasoning for that is so Players wouldn't exploit it by conjuring weapon after weapon and then sell it or use it to fight, etc... But I think as you become more of a master, a person could learn how to conjure up actual items, not lesser daedra. Although that might be a combination of mysticism & conjuration.

I still think it would have to be alive for you to summon it: recalling a spoon to you would be mysticism.

Necromancy, from what I've read and seen, just animates things that are already dead. Not sure how it would work on flora. But because the TES games are so limited and mostly focus on battle/combat, there isn't much creative thought put into the workings of all these spells as to what they could actually potentially do. And that svcks.

I'm pissed that we were never given necromantic spells. why they didn't fix it for skyrim is beyond me.

We agreed entirely on the ones i didn't mention
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Myles
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 8:15 am

Well, we got that nifty necromantic trick in Shivering Isles, and Manimarco's Staff.
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Syaza Ramali
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 11:51 am

Conjuration has always irked me the way they have it set up in the TES series. It is soooooo freakin limited. You can only conjure weapons/armor/fighting monsters like lesser daedra. Why? Because the TES series is a combat-oriented CRPG. But I think if conjuration were real, you'd be able to conjure forks, paper, books, clothes, water, any physical object really, depending on how good you were at this avenue of study. Conjuration works by summoning a lesser daedra in the form of something, which it then disppears. Yeah, I understand the reasoning for that is so Players wouldn't exploit it by conjuring weapon after weapon and then sell it or use it to fight, etc... But I think as you become more of a master, a person could learn how to conjure up actual items, not lesser daedra. Although that might be a combination of mysticism & conjuration.


For what it's worth, there is mention of battlemages creating water to feed troops in the Disaster at Ionith book:

The Emperor now found himself besieged in Ionith, cut off from the small garrison at Septimia which was also besieged. By this time, it seems that the efforts of the few remaining battlemages were devoted entirely to creating water to keep the army alive, a skill not normally emphasized at the War College.


I'm not sure what school that would fall under, conjuration I guess?
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Catharine Krupinski
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 11:59 pm

I actually do. Have you ever played redguard?
Yup. I have it on the shelf here too.
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leni
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 8:53 pm

I'm not sure what school that would fall under, conjuration I guess?

CREATING is the key word. not summoning. Alteration; I considered using that book as a source.

Yup. I have it on the shelf here too.

Well there is a certain enchanted/necromantic sword-prince.
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Iain Lamb
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 9:11 pm


Conjuration has always irked me the way they have it set up in the TES series. It is soooooo freakin limited. You can only conjure weapons/armor/fighting monsters like lesser daedra. Why? Because the TES series is a combat-oriented CRPG. But I think if conjuration were real, you'd be able to conjure forks, paper, books, clothes, water, any physical object really, depending on how good you were at this avenue of study. Conjuration works by summoning a lesser daedra in the form of something, which it then disppears. Yeah, I understand the reasoning for that is so Players wouldn't exploit it by conjuring weapon after weapon and then sell it or use it to fight, etc... But I think as you become more of a master, a person could learn how to conjure up actual items, not lesser daedra. Although that might be a combination of mysticism & conjuration.



I don't know whether there is actually a description of conjuration in the lore, outside of whatever the manuals say, but consider: the weapons and armour conjured are all daedric, i.e. are forged with the souls of deadra. The pets summoned are either daedra or undead. So it looks as if 'conjuration' is a mixture of daedra-summoning and necromancy- a sort of generic black magic (or its opposite, when turning undead). I do not recall any descriptions of mundane objects being conjured.
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Kat Ives
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 5:55 pm

CREATING is the key word. not summoning. Alteration; I considered using that book as a source.


Well there is a certain enchanted/necromantic sword-prince.
And from that experience you didn't get the impression that necromancy and enchantment were so similar that they might be called indistinguishable?

Capture soul, use the soul power to imbue items with magical properties. http://www.halcyonline.com/wp-content/uploads/posts/soulpower.jpg
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Brad Johnson
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 12:42 pm

And from that experience you didn't get the impression that necromancy and enchantment were so similar that they might be called indistinguishable?

Capture soul, use the soul power to imbue items with magical properties. http://www.halcyonline.com/wp-content/uploads/posts/soulpower.jpg

Necromancy is using magic to fuel a soul. Enchantment is using a soul to fuel magica.
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Brιonα Renae
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 3:21 pm

Necromancy is using magic to fuel a soul. Enchantment is using a soul to fuel magica.
Souls are magic. People are soulgems.
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Mashystar
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 10:45 am

Souls are magic. People are soulgems.

Souls are a form of magic. It is not Magnus who is the god of souls, it is Merida, his daughter. Souls are derived from magic but not the same.

Enchantment is like changing Gasoline to Crude Oil and Necromancy is refining Crude Oil to Gasoline.
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Lisa Robb
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 1:30 am

What's to say you can't bind a soul to an inanimate object?
Is this enchantment or necromancy (providing an empty vessel with a soul).

Not only do we have sentient bound armors, but the Umbra Sword, an instance where the implanted soul can overpower its user.

I'm tempted to agree that Enchantment and Necromancy are more or less the same aspect of magic, with one dealing more specifically in retaining the identity of the soul it uses.
Necromancy a sub-school of Enchantment.
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Lew.p
 
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Post » Sun May 15, 2011 11:13 am

So what's up with spriggans summoning bears?
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Emma-Jane Merrin
 
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