I though of starting a thread that would discuss the strange lore additions given during the Shivering Isles.
(If there aleady was a topic like this I'm sorry )
Many people were either amazed or just mad due the very strange happenings (It's pretty clear that it's about Sheogorath, eh )
Until now Bethesda didn't gave any further information of what happened really during the Greymarch and IF it will be ever given... we'll have to wait a long time... So for now most people rely on their own version and beliefs of what happened the day that Sheogorath turned into Jyggalag and a mortal turned into Sheogorath. Some people just say Bethesda was stupid with doing this, other just accepted it, and others say this whole story about Jyggalag and the mortal Sheogorath was just a trick of the Daedric prince of Madness...

My beliefs:
Jyggalag is just another aspect of the madness of Sheogorath like Mania and Dementia. The fact that Sheogorath, prince of madness is also a prince of order just brings it to a higher level of Madness. I don't think that either of the two was there before the other. Like that Sheogorath is a cursed Jyggalag...
The fact that the Champion of Cyrodiil became the prince is in my eyes just a trick of Sheogorath, just to add a VIP to his collection of maddogs.. Cuz the CoC could never be the only person not to go mad in the Isles...

Ofcourse every opinion of what happened has right and wrong sides some uses some proofs others don't... But saying that someone's opinion on this is wrong can't really be said since Bethesda didn't gave any explanation so far...

Seeing as Sheog is really the personification of the uncertainty of life itself, I have no qualms about a mortal being able to become Sheog.

And just look at the case of Arden Sul with all the Duke of Mania/Dementia confusion; that basic Enantiomorph stuff. Some state he's the mortal aspect of Sheog. I say he was the "last" Sheog.

I think Jygg is made-up, the CoC went insane, and this is just another piece of ES lore.

Personally, I don't think the CoC became a Daedric Prince. I just think he became the new Prince of Madness, because unlike Jyggalag, he wasn't a Daedric Prince to begin with.

This is Sheogorath we're talking about here. The strangest, most inane answer, is surely the correct one.

Blueberry pie?

Exactly.

There are exactly 42 playing cards when you take away kings, queens and jacks and leave two fools with the rest of the sorry lot which is a 54-card deck. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Amazing Atheist? Youtube?

The Champion of Cyrodiil lays curled up in a ball in the corner. He is rambling on to himself "I am Sheogorath, I am Sheogorath." Sheogorath looks over at the Champion of Cyrodiil and laughs.

Is there any hint of the COC madness theory ingame? Or is it just a pet theory for people who didn't like what they did?

They = Bethesda

Why is it that when I propose the theory that the player character only thinks he becomes Sheogorath I get told off, but when a poll is created proposing the same theory, no one has a problem discussing it like civil people?

Sheogorath gives you his clothes, some special powers that only work in his realm, and a title. He does not grant the player Daedric status.

It's as far as I know a widely accepted alternate theory to what happened at SI. I've been saying it, other have been saying, and frankly it's a very popular alternate theory. So I have no idea how you got shot down, unless you expected everyone to play nice with the CoC because he did complete SI, but died because he was mortal and then everyone had a good laugh. The current most popular theory is that the CoC went made, and is curled up somewhere in SI. If yours was he became the 'ruler' it makes no sense, because SI may as well dissolved out, since there is no longer a prince of the realm (the realm is the prince, and the prince is the realm).


walk like them till they walk like you.

Tiber Septim did this, and the CoC just did it too if we are to take this as face value. So, you're both gods, where Tiber became Talos to fill the role of Shezzar, and you filled the role of Sheogorath and became the new daedric prince. The realm reformed back to its previous self before Jyggy arrived, signifying that you took the realm and now it's as much a part of you, as you are a part of it literally. Game mechanics the reason why you can't grow 100ft tall and step on everyone.

They messed up the lore a bit on this i mean nobody achally new sheo was jygalag beth just made him up to make some money and to trick new players of the series into beliving there was no sheo i hope they fix this in TES 5 thats my opinion.

Well, not straight that Haskill comes to you saying: "You are mad." But it's just a bit logical thinking work i guess...

It's a fact that everyone in the Isles, and those who enter it, are mad or eventually go mad..... Why would the CoC be the only exception.... Some people could say that the champion is some kind of avatar or incarnation of the gods, or a god... But even then he probably would be unable to remain sane since Sheogorath IS the Isles, he decides what happens in and with the Isles... Within his realm he is the most powerfull being you could imagine, no god, espacially the much weaker Divines, would ever be able to withstand the power of a daedra within it's own realm... There are alot more reasons to believe that the Champion is NOT an exception then that he would be...
Another simple explanation would be the fact that the CoC was able to defeat the Gatekeeper..... Only people who recieved the blessing of Sheogorath would be able to pass.... (We know that this blessing means: "went mad") But it's never explained how you would leave the Fringe (like that the gatekeeper just ignores you) or when exactly you are mad enough to be blessed by sheogorath....
The Fringe is there to keep the not-insane-enough people seperated from the rest of the isles, Sheogorath would never let people pass who aren't insane enough... but yet again... you passed without someone said: "You are mad enough the enter the Isles"
What you DID do was killing the gatekeeper and after you did that you were given the permision of Haskill to enter the Isles... So recieving the lords blessing, or going mad, wich mostly means that you may enter the Isles probably means that you would be able to defeat the Gatekeeper (or you recieved a blessing of Sheogorath so you would be able to kill it)
Also.... Never did you got a journal update saying: "I think I turned mad now" neither did anyone said it to you, nor did there ever occured any special screen effect indicating you would be insane.... Most people who are insane don't realise or know that of themselves....

I guess these hints are enough hints that this theory isn't just a pet theory who didn't liked Bethesda for the Isles (.. but still, it remains a theory.)


Also, to Benoede..... Jyggalag wasn't made up by bethesda during the SI, he was already mentioded before, although it is believable that they only went deeper in his subject during the creation of the SI....

I think some might get pretty dissapointed when it comes to "the fix of the lore" in TESV since the events took place in the Isles and the story never reached (as far as we know) Mundus..... But you never know....

There's also that one elf that speaks gibberish, and once you are Sheo you can completely understand him.

That indeed would indicate that you indeed became a part of the realm, but ofcourse it doesn't leave out the fact that it could still be a trick since Sheo could give you a bit of power before he takes back his position

Or you really are that bat [censored] crazy, and sheo is right behind the CoC laughing.

However, there is an addition food for thought. I remember someone here posted some quotes from Sheogorath saying how he is going to take some of your body parts, but not yet, during the middle of the SI main quest line. In a mythical way, when you do become the madgod, he did take those parts and owns them because you are now him.

Indeed

My beliefs on the matter:
1. Everything in Oblivion is scaled. EVERYTHING. That also includes the main character. My belief is that TES actually follows the adventures of several different heoes. One for each guild, the MQ, SI, and KotN. Why else does no one talk about how the Nerevarine is the Master Thief or Grandmaster of House Telvanni? It honestly makes sense because no NPC's are super-uber jack-of-all trades magethiefbarbarians.
2. I do not think that the events in SI ever actually happened. I think that as soon as he approached the Strange Door, he simply went insane. What the player saw was what the NPC experienced from his perspective. In reality, I think he was that Dunmer that the guard killed as he came out of the Door. Why is it that he's the only one other than the PC that is ever seen going in and out of that door? After all, insane people don't think that they're insane or they'd be sane.

Jyggalag appears as a name, minus description, in one of the pre-SI books. HE was just never explained.

My theory: THe CoC went bat[censored] crazy as part of the mantling process. Your sheogorath, but you went crazy in the process.

Seeing as you're the Prince of Madness, that's technically a given.

So what's new?

I believe that Jyggalag is just another aspect of Ol' Man Sheo's insanity.

well dont think the dumer was the only 1 who got tru i belief seening a kajit who tought nobody was seeing her who also was standing outside the portal but maby that was the CoC going insane already no 1 knows or just a follower who went crazy in mudus already and was waiting to enter but just because the dark elf was the only 1 we saw leaving doesnt meen he is the only 1 besides the CoC is not raced bound like the nevevar excaly no1 know what he is and that why all heros disapear such mistyrios ways: P

but about the CoC i think indeed wene he did the SI MQ he became a part of good old Sheo but Sheo is not him/her and as you freed jyg to get rid of the curse i think now the curse is living on is own and as its a deadric origin and created by power from each other deadric prince i think the curse is self now strong enough to manifest as SI and eventualy as the new sheo wile you manteling him now