The sixth Combat skill : V - Skyrim

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:23 am

Marksman, Sneak, Speechcraft, Athletics, Alchemy, Light Armor

(including the merges you detailed)

Same as with Hand-to-Hand. Light Armor and Heavy armor would have very few perks each if they were seperate.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:57 pm

@ OP:
It could be seen like that,who knows.
But i believe it won't,it will most probably be a perk.
Or maybe just default,because in effect,you are just still using a one handed weapon,just in each hand.
Just like holding a sword and shield. I can see where your coming from,but i don't think we'll have "duel wield" as a skill.
We'll have to wait and see.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:25 pm

I don't think they are going to have armor skills. I think they will cover armor with the smiting skill oddly enough.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:35 pm

and Ironicly, I can′t think they be enough perks to warrant a skill for dual-wield

Actually, there's a bit more ground to move about in Dual-Wield. You can specialize in using two lightweight weapons, such as duo daggers, or two heavier weapons, such as longswords and maces.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:15 pm

That's a thought I had too, but then I found it very difficult to think up enough perks to warrant a seperate skill for it. It's not like they'll be implementing Karate, Aikido and Kung-Fu or something.

My opinion is that they'll let Stamina handle that aspect.

No, they definitely wouldn't implement real-world combat styles. They would use the many hand-to-hand combat styles that are already established in the lore.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:02 pm

Just like holding a sword and shield.

Actually, that argument's a bit weak, since there is the Block skill which will be the most useful to shield-bearing warriors (which means upping two skills). Anyways I'm not assuming that it's 100% Dual-Wield, I'm just saying it's a very likely candidate and I can't think of anything better.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:52 pm

No, they definitely wouldn't implement real-world combat styles. They would use the many hand-to-hand combat styles that are already established in the lore.

I'm not much of a lore buff when it comes to those. Can you name them?

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:49 pm

Then it's probably that you'll increase both, just like you increase both Sneak and One-Handed during a sneak-kill. Except that One-handed would increase more slowly when you dual-wield.

Isn't it just the act of sneaking that increases sneak? And why? You're weilding 2 one handed weapons. Should be even higher. They're too complementary.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:07 am

Isn't it just the act of sneaking that increases sneak? And why? You're weilding 2 one handed weapons. Should be even higher. They're too complementary.

What I meant is the style of sneaking up to your opponent and killing them from behind uses two skills, not one.
And why? Because then you'd level up a single skill too fast and people would exploit it.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:11 pm

Actually, that argument's a bit weak, since there is the Block skill which will be the most useful to shield-bearing warriors (which means upping two skills). Anyways I'm not assuming that it's 100% Dual-Wield, I'm just saying it's a very likely candidate and I can't think of anything better.

It's not weak at all. You can still block whether it's one ,one handed weapon,two,one handed weapons,or a two handed weapon.
A one handed weapon ,requires one hand,even if you are holding one in each hand,it's still a one handed skill.
Two handed weapons are two handed for a reason,weight,length,style etc.
Yes blocking with a shield is more effective,but you can block with two,one handed swords too.
I believe it will be a perk or be there by default. Same with spells.
Just my view

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:30 am

It's not weak at all. You can still block whether it's one ,one handed weapon,two,one handed weapons,or a two handed weapon.
A one handed weapon ,requires one hand,even if you are holding one in each hand,it's still a one handed skill.
Two handed weapons are two handed for a reason,weight,length,style etc.
Yes blocking with a shield is more effective,but you can block with two,one handed swords too.
I believe it will be a perk or be there by default. Same with spells.
Just my view

Hmm, then any ideas for other candidates for the sixth skill then?

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:24 pm

What I meant is the style of sneaking up to your opponent and killing them from behind uses two skills, not one.
And why? Because then you'd level up a single skill too fast and people would exploit it.

Yes, but my point is both those skills level up seperately and do not need to be used in conjunction. If you are using a dual wield skill, you HAVE to be using the 1-hand skill, AND they always level up from the same action.

» Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:21 am

Hmm, then any ideas for other candidates for the sixth skill then?

I believe hand to hand will still be there,maybe seperate.
I think it would have enough perks to keep seperate,but i may be wrong.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:26 am

I'm not much of a lore buff when it comes to those. Can you name them?

They're almost all Khajiiti, but they aren't very fleshed out. Ones I know off the top of my head are the Two-Moons style, the Goutfang style, and something with "Sand" in the title. :laugh: Most of these styles are mentioned in in-game books.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:10 pm

This is what i think will be the 6 combat skills: ( just my view ,it does not mean i'm right ).
1: Block
2: One handed
3: Two handed
4: Hand to hand
5: Smithing
6: heavy armour.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:47 pm

They're almost all Khajiiti, but they aren't very fleshed out. Ones I know off the top of my head are the Two-Moons style, the Goutfang style, and something with "Sand" in the title. :laugh: Most of these styles are mentioned in in-game books.

At least three styles. Though I doubt they'd be the perks.
The only way I see it would be that Hand-to-Hand would be merged with Athletics (without Acrobatics in the mix) as a general "warrior fitness" skill.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:36 am

At least three styles. Though I doubt they'd be the perks.
The only way I see it would be that Hand-to-Hand would be merged with Athletics (without Acrobatics in the mix) as a general "warrior fitness" skill.

Yeah, I can't say that I'm really expecting hand-to-hand to return as a skill, or have many (if any) perks. I'm hoping it does, but Bethesda doesn't like hand-to-hand for whatever reason, so it never receives much attention.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:35 pm

Yes, but my point is both those skills level up seperately and do not need to be used in conjunction. If you are using a dual wield skill, you HAVE to be using the 1-hand skill, AND they always level up from the same action.

Hmm, well, unless you go for the "confused turtle" approach (dual-shield) I can't see how using Block doesn't demand using either the One-Handed or Two-Handed skill as well. The only exception is if you use a Shield with Destruction magic.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:44 pm

Yeah, I can't say that I'm really expecting hand-to-hand to return as a skill, or have many (if any) perks. I'm hoping it does, but Bethesda doesn't like hand-to-hand for whatever reason, so it never receives much attention.

There could be perks for it.
Hand to hand is more than just punching someone.
They also said close quarters combat is more intense.
When they studied real fights,they realized it involved alot of grabbing,jostling,staggering etc.
Hand to hand as kicks,grabs,throws,blocks,disarming techniques etc.
I believe there would be enough perks for it.
I hope it stays.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:18 pm

I would add Polearms , swimming , crafting ( according to specific field) , alchemy , medicine , lore, climbing , lockpicking and others may also be added , I don't like much actually their way to simplify all , It makes too much seem they are doing this for the little teen kids that have puffy fingers and small brain ....

Huh? Now you have to use your brain even more with the new system, every level you have to pick a perk, you have to think about how you will build your character as you can't become good at everything. In OB or MW I could just get good at everything,it required no thought at all. Now I will have to look over my options at each level and plan for the next. There are more options now and more thinking on the pc part. I like it and I am not a kid nor have been for some time.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:59 pm

I would add Polearms , swimming , crafting ( according to specific field) , alchemy , medicine , lore, climbing , lockpicking and others may also be added , I don't like much actually their way to simplify all , It makes too much seem they are doing this for the little teen kids that have puffy fingers and small brain ....

I'm sorry,this is a ridiculous post.
I'm 35 and i like the sounds of they are doing with it.
What do you think now?

» Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:47 am

even tough you forgot about marksman, it seens reasonable to be dual weilding, i certainly am not a fan of it, but if it doesn't slow me down, i don't see why i can't give it a try, even tough im a stealthier kind of guy, meaning that im going to be using alot of one handed only daggers! and definitly marksman will be in there for me ( i always start as a stealth, and then when it loses the fun of assasination and the armours starts to look badass i go into heavy armour. lol!)

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:40 pm

I'm sorry,this is a ridiculous post.
I'm 35 and i like the sounds of they are doing with it.
What do you think now?

Agreed. See my post above.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:56 pm

No, the Dual-Wield skill is absolutely unlikely IMO. It just breaks the balance: to dual-wield you have to level up this skill plus the skill for the weapon you use in either hand. So using a two-handed weapon is much more efficient. And again, as said above, that would be one action to level up two skills. That doesn't make sense.

» Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:54 pm

Just about everything I had planned on saying has been said. I'll just add that I agree Dual Wielding probably won't be its own separate skill. More likely a perk for one handed weapons.

I would add Polearms , swimming , crafting ( according to specific field) , alchemy , medicine , lore, climbing , lockpicking and others may also be added , I don't like much actually their way to simplify all , It makes too much seem they are doing this for the little teen kids that have puffy fingers and small brain ....

IMO it doesn't feel like they're doing it for "little teen kids", it feels like they're remaking the game as they have done to some extent since Daggerfall.

There could be perks for it.
Hand to hand is more than just punching someone.
They also said close quarters combat is more intense.
When they studied real fights,they realized it involved alot of grabbing,jostling,staggering etc.
Hand to hand as kicks,grabs,throws,blocks,disarming techniques etc.
I believe there would be enough perks for it.
I hope it stays.

As someone who has studied multiple martial arts for a few years, I can vouch for this.
There would be at least as many perks for Hand-to-Hand as Dual Wielding, if not more