*Because not all mods work together and getting a large compilation to work in harmony is very difficult to say the least.

*Mods require updates and patches that cannot be implemented in a compilation by the original author. (fact of modding and life)

*Not many mod authors want their mods combined in a large download. Me included.

*Not many mod users want to be saddled with mods they don't want along with the ones they do want.

*Users computers differ in specs and some mods cannot be used by some.

I prefer to say it with a heavy New England lockjaw. Myes.

Still trying to get FCOM to work? I might know a few articles--yes, there's a little reading--that can help clarify how to get it started.

Everybody else be fair, installing FCOM is a nightmare for some of us, especially when you're new to modding in general and don't know what "bashed patch" means or "lock times" or "merge in wrye bash and then run boss and then launch obmm." I had a similar experience when I was learning how to use Blender to alter armor and clothing meshes to fit the body replacers I have installed. I was directed to several guides and walkthroughs and most of them assumed that I was familiar with the tools Blender provided, at least to the extent that it didn't bother explaining HOW to highlight multiple vertices, HOW to actually make a lattice (that was an entirely different walkthrough altogether), let alone how to make that lattice even work AND save its changes. When you're totally new to terms like "construction set" and don't yet understand just what .bsa, .esm, or .esp mean, or what nifs are, or how to even look at a dds texture, modding can be overwhelming.

Anyway, a little more on topic:

If you're still having trouble installing your addons refer to my first answer to your first question. http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?act=ST&f=25&t=1043790

You should also refer to the FCOM website for FCOM-specific installation instructions. http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/fcominstall.html

Basically what FCOM is is a compatibility patch for several large overhaul mods that make several changes to your Oblivion gaming experience but also conflict very heavily with one-another. To successfully install it you may want to start with a completely unmodded copy of Oblivion. This may mean a complete uninstall, deleting of your Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion folder, and then a complete, fresh reinstall of Oblivion, Wrye Bash, Oblivion Mod Manager, and OBSE, as well as the latest Oblivion patch. It isn't necessary, but at least with a clean install you'll know for certain that you won't have any leftover mod remnants interfering with your FCOM experience.

For clarification on the install instructions at the FCOM website:

When the site instructs you to install an addon follow that addons' individual installation instructions very well. If you have any questions, ask here for further help or clarification before proceeding any further. It may take longer to get it installed but it will save you a huge headache if you made a mistake and caught it early on rather than having to start AGAIN with a fresh install and start the process over.

FCOM and its dependancies don't come all neatly bundled together for our convenience for many reasons. There are so many customization options available that it wouldn't be able to fully please everyone. The file size would be enormous and therefore more unavailable for those who have bandwidth restrictions or slow internet connections. The individual dependancies and FCOM itself are updated regularly with patches, fixes, and new content, and while one could combine all these patches and fixes and additions into one neat update package you would have to have SEVERAL packages to accomodate those who play with WarCry, those who don't, those who play with specific aspects of Frans that others may not, etc. Therefore it puts a large chunk of install responsibility on the person trying to play it.

Your best bet is to familiarize yourself with terminology and phrases associated with modding so that general advice sounds a little less cryptic and foreign to you. If you don't know what somebody means, ask for clarification. Even when you ask for a step by step, laymans terms guide to install even ONE mod you'll likely get a quick "install it through obmm then run wrye bash to merge" answer instead of something more in-depth that doesn't sound ludicrously absurd and unknown to you. You'll probably be asking a lot of "...and what exactly does that mean?" or "can you please clarify that, like, a lot more?"

The reason it's so much more difficult than it has to be is that you're new to Oblivion modding and are trying to install one of the most difficult-to-install overhauls out there. Even an in-depth, layman's terms explanation might still be horribly and utterly confusing.

So, who's stopping you from throwing your game in the trashcan? Please do! And while you're at it, you might want to look if you accidentally have thrown away your (obvious) great sense of humor and your learning abilities.

No offence, just being sarcastic!

Because you need the permissions from all the modders involved. Because an update or patch for any of the mods involved would require updating the entire installer. Because you have to define what mods are appropriate for inclusion, and lots of people would disagree.

I already told you, mega-installers are often discussed, but impossible. You aren't dealing with a single entity that has rights to everything they want to release. You are dealing with thousands of individuals who maintain their own products.

Because mere compilations are very bad news. OOO is not, it does include other mods, true, but it joins them together, meshing them all seamlessly to create the experience that it is.

Oblivion's modding community has not matured (by that I mean: has not stopped modding) enough to warrant a compilation mod to include all the essentials, as many of these are works in progress and continue to be improved upon. Also, define essential. Why should I inflict my opinion of what is best upon someone else in the form of gigabytes of data? Better that they know their own minds. The stickies detail where to find everything, and a quick search there or a question in the Mod Detectives/Psychics threads will return some possibilities.

A young man named Albert Einstein once said that 'Understanding is more important than knowledge.'

This is true in everything, including using mods. If something goes wrong, and you understand how it works, then you are in a better position to fix it. A user who downloads a compilation 1 click install thing does not understand, and quite possibly won't know what they are installing. This leads to all sorts of problems. Better that they learn slowly, than not at all.

And that's not forgetting that these compilations almost always seem to get made by people who aren't very experienced with mods themselves, and so make mistakes, or don't get permissions, the list goes on.

The short answer is that the cons of compilations outnumber their pros. To simplify things, the best way found so far is to write guides on them, and to offer mods in as easy to install packages as possible. And that is what we do.

Frustrating or not, there is no excuse for his attitude, his threats about squeezing heads or his blaming of all the modders for his failure. If he had a problem he could ask politely especially as so many people are so willing to help.

I may have shaken the bush a bit with my initial post but what fell out clearly demonstrates in my mind what probably is the single biggest obstacle for this modding community to achieve far greater recognition.

Put aside differences, egos etc and package one big simple to use mod which scores of 'unsophisticated' average shmoes can install and you will make waves and maybe even catch the attention of the developers.

That is a fact.

Anyway folks, it is the weekend, if I have offended - I apologize. Everyone have a great weekend and as I stated in my initial post - creators of these mods have my UPTMOST respect but it is the delivery in my view that leaves a lot to be desired.

NO IT ISN'T. Have you read nothing! IT..... CANNOT..... BE..... DONE regardless of what you think or want.

IT..... CANNOT..... BE..... DONE
IT..... CANNOT..... BE..... DONE
IT..... CANNOT..... BE..... DONE
IT..... CANNOT..... BE..... DONE
IT..... CANNOT..... BE..... DONE
IT..... CANNOT..... BE..... DONE

Am I getting through or is it just wishful thinking.

For added effect:

NO...THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

(shamless Empire Strikes Back quote. I can't quite get the phrasing, or the raw emotion, conveyed through text though. )

Oh, and if you are truely signing off, I wish to thank you. It's always fun having a reasoned debate, pitting reason and logic against the overwhelming forces of emotional outbursts, attitude and chaotic thought patterns. Too bad those forces are indeed overwhelming, it seems.

Curious, what are the main obstacles to creating a 'compilation' mod with an easy one click install?
List the reasons and I will give you solutions - sound fair?

I'd like to chime in as someone who has absolutely no knowledge of modding and only a modest knowledge of computers in general. I just recently started playing Oblivion on the PC. The first time I tried installing mods it didn't go so well because I just jumped into it thinking how hard could it be compared to modding in other games. So I started over again with a clean install. I made sure I read ALL of the readme that came with whatever mod I was installing, sometimes reading them multiple times. That's really all successfully installing any mod requires. If you are not willing to do something that simple then you shouldn't be using mods. I find it insulting to modders to refuse to follow simple instructions and then come to their forums a [censored] about it.

See the bottom of my post on this same page.

Aside from maintaining a loose form of copyright or a firm desire to keep one's work strictly under his or her own direct control, there are many other obstacles that make it far too much work and then a neverending, tedious task to maintain properly. Very few modders would allow their massive overhaul mod to be thrown together with a few other popular overhauls for the sake of easy download and one click install if it meant they could not directly control customization options or potentially game-breaking conflicts.

I don't understand, its as simple as clicking unzip, running BOSS, checking the Data File, preferably using OBMM or Wrye Bash and playing. How is installing one large mod different from installing a couple of small ones, it requires the same amount of knowledge.

Some people learn faster than others but I learned in about a month how to install, reorder, and make bashed patches for mods. Thats not to say I'm good at it, but at least I tired, it seems like your just telling yourself you can't do it, start with a clean slate and install a few mods at a time and don't be afraid to start over if you ever have to. Use tools like BOSS to help resolve conflicts with minimal effort. You've made your confusion evident, but things really aren't as hard as they appear, it could be a lot worse, but we've got a good community that has made tools to assist us.

There are lots of great mods that are one click installers too, OMODs, BAINs, or even the old exe installer.

EDIT: Revision

EDIT2: Deluge of posts while I was typing, here is my respone.

-You can't pick and choose mods when they are in one big file, what may be the best f-ing list of mods ever to one person can totally svck to another.
-Authors have their names in a pool rather than alone (maybe just my opinion but I would rather see one name on a mod).
-It still wouldn't be one click, there is still a certain amount of knowledge you need to install anything and a certain amount of willingness from authors to make it user friendly (to people like you).
-As was said before, compatibility is still an issue, FCOM is the closest thing to what you are looking for I've seen and it is not easy like you would like, things have to be compatible.

Don't respond, "well get over it" to any of the above, so easy to come up with solutions now?

As I said in the post you clearly did not bother to read....

1. Vast amount of authors independant from each other. Some dead, some missing, most unwilling.

2. Information to be conveyed about the mods included, with no detail ommitted.

3. Legal rights to resources.

4. Inability to teach new mod users the fine points of the art.

5. Reduced mod user to mod maker conversion ratio.

6. Loss of ingenuity and innovation.

7. Distribution.

8. Rights to creation.

9. Hardware differences.

10. Differing ideals and points of view.

Those I got off the top of the head.

EDIT: Also see my previous post.

My god, installing mods is pretty much as simple as possible right now. What more could you reasonably expect? The average mod takes a minute to install! Do you honestly think we can reach inside your head, determine what mods you would like and install them for you?! Given that you obviously have no clue about moding how can you possibly comment let alone give solutions to the problem?

This. I spend a lot of time in the Oblivion General forum (where a lot of common, ordinary, non-elite players hang out). And I can't remember how many times I've heard someone say they didn't like OOO because it was too gigantic, it changed too many things, it scared them, they were afraid such a large mod was going to ruin their game ...and on and on.

The fact is: the average large mod is more intimidating to inexperienced players than the average small mod.

Even though I should leave, I keep making yet another post - okay this is the last one! lol

I got to say, that I can't believe nobody found my initial post humorous - talk about tough crowd! Some of you IMO are taking your work way too seriously! The reaction I am getting, one would think I bashed mod makers when in fact I gave praise countless times in the initial post. The main criticism I leveled was about the lack of simplicity and that not enough work had been done in this regard.

Looking at some of the responses - I got people increasing fonts to gargantuan sizes, all capitals etc - talk about a need to take a chill pill already.

I made valid points, IF you want to dismiss them then fine. I am 100% confident that if I were to ask any other shmoe like myself they would feel exactly the same way.

Anyway, time for beer...

Looks like we finally got through to him, everyone. :foodndrink:

Do you think that the modders in the Oblivion community are applying for jobs with these mods?

You forgot that on the internet, humor is lost. It's why they invented the emoticon. And I failed to spot the praise amongst all the whining.

And as for the gigantic lettering, that was to stress a point you were not getting, not because we're frothing at the mouth.

And finally, yes, you made your point, and you explained them. In fact, you explained them well, so now I know I am doing the right thing in distregarding everything you have written.

But I want to hear your solutions?

I found it humorous. Perhaps we have a similar sense of humor.

I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Read my post in your first thread, I linked it in one of my posts in THIS one, and read my post in this thread. It should more or less answer most of your questions or point you in the right direction for answers. If you need clarification, ask for clarification.

In the end to get FCOM working properly you'll have to do the installation and setup yourself. It's tedious but once you've got it done right it adds an enormous amount of fun to your game. If I wasn't so lazy I'd probably download and install it again myself, eventually.

Also note that you don't have to update any of the FCOM mods unless FCOM itself has an update that you feel like installing. In that case, it may require you to install the latest patches to MMM, OOO, Frans, and/or any other optional mod FCOM supports. Otherwise, once it's in there, it's in there and can be forgotten.

This is a very important point to consider, my good friend the OP. Modders on this site put hundreds of hours into something they get paid jack poop for - that we already know. But imagine if they put a lot of time into a mod only to have it go completely unused because somebody decided to throw it into a compilation that crashes on start up? How disappointed do you think that person would be to find out everybody thinks the modder in question did a bad job when in reality it was the fault of someone else entirely? That's why you're better off learning the ropes the way everybody else did. If you do that, modders will be encouraged to keep producing new and better forms of Oblivion, and there'll be a lot more good feelings.

But to get back on topic...



Yep.

Large fonts? This is not the worst thread I have seen by far. Try searching Morrowind vs Oblivion.
I'm not sure if he said we got through to him or if he won't be bothered to type more BS points and just try installing some mods for himself.

(points to Jasmer's post) See, we aren't all nasty, elitist angry modders. Ask nicely and we'll give all the help you need. Some, like Jasmer, will continue trying to help long after the rest of us are shaking our heads ruefully. Though perhaps that's because we're jaded (even though I haven't been here long). :shrug: