Brother Sentinel Indrick Boreale. It is obvious!
"There is no time to be lost, brothers and sisters!
Knights, the enemy is in their Mobile Base Crawler off map!
We know our mission, and we will ignore it! We fight for Elder Lyon's agenda as knights, as the Bruthahood! And we fight in the name of Lyons!
If we die this day, we will die because Bethesda deans it possible. But we shall not die, NO! It is the Enclave's plot essential factor that will be removed!
As you know, most of our brothers are stationed across random parts of the Capital Wasteland, prepared to not know anything about our plan!
Our perimeter (At least, the immediate surrounding of the Citadel) has been prepared in case the Enclave realize their Mobile Base Crawler is mobile!
We have not placed multiple teams to strike, and we simply have our strangely trusted HERO and the pride strike simultaneously! And he will place their own orbital abilities against them!
Our ignored codex names this manuva Steel Rush! We will amass upon our foe, we will leave only re spawning soldiers out in the wastes alive! Meanwhile, our 3-4 knights/initiates with a single Sentry Bot will ensure the full defense of our Citadel!
WE ARE THE BRUTHAHOOD! WE ARE LYON'S FURY!"

Original Scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJMLfACod48

The solution to all of Capital Wasteland's problems: the complete eradication of the Brotherhood of Steel cult.

Lyons' BoS isn't much of a cult anymore, unlike the West. And with each successive generation of recruits from the local populace, it will become less and less so. Also, the best way to solve not just the East's problems, but the entire world's, is to annihilate the Enclave root and branch. The rest of the American populace can do just fine without the same people that started the great war to begin with still being in charge.

I've got a solution to the CWBOS's problems.

*inserts FEV*

I'm not an Enclave supporter, but the FEV would help the CWBoS and the region by eliminating those who do not seem to have the grit in their heart to change anything, to build a new world. The East Coast Enclave & The Institute are the only factions that seem to be working towards this in the Capital Wasteland.

And like the OP said, for the CWBoS' incompetence, this is the reward they can expect.

-Nukeknockout

Not quite, since the Brotherhood will be killed by the FEV.



Exactly. The Enclave is absolutely the only faction who has plans beyond, See Sand -> Conquer Sand -> Repeat.

Eden says that restoring America is just decades away. "There are plans in motion to see that happen within your lifetime".
And with Colonel Autumn not willing to conduct global genocide, I'd say that East Coast Enclave is one of the good guys. Harsh methods but I can't argue with their results.
I hope we will hear of them again in Bethesda's future Fallouts.

Well...it was part of my point that the CWBoS seems to be doing their level best to propagate the existing system(no farming, scavenging, constant struggle to survive for even one freaking day no matter where you live, no roads, no communication) until the moment when it appeared that by changing the system, they could rule. Whereas the Enclave appears to, like you said, understand the situation in the Capital Wasteland a lot better & seems to be actively trying to change it.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about restoring America, but I can back anyone who aims to restore regional stability. I hope we'll hear from them again too, there's a lot more to them than they got in FO3.

-Nukeknockout

Indrick Boreale is probably the worst written character in the entire history of the Warhammer 40,000 video games. If not the worst written, then the worst voice acted, in what is easily the worst installment of the Dawn of War franchise (Soulstorm.)

Everything was wrong about that game. Orks assuming they'd lose before even seeing the enemy? A hardened Space Marine commander saying "This is gonna be easy, they won't see us coming." in a half Jersey Shore, half Fronch (fake French) accent? Dear lord, EVERYTHING from the Chaos stronghold? ("WE CANNOT DIE. THEY WILL DIE. AND WHEN THEY DIE THE DIE WILL DIE DIE GURGLE FOAM.") Talking Necron Lord? The amount of obvious bad script decisions hurt me every time I play through the campaign and go "Does this voice actor realize the heinous murder of the English language they just participated in?" And unlike Dark Crusade there is no reason, nor is one ever even given, as to why the Space Marines and Imperial Guard would be fighting, and the vague, pathetic hook they gave to make the Sisters of Battle antagonistic to both is.. well, vague and pathetic. Go go three separate Imperium factions all taking shots at each other during the middle of one of the most diverse military conflicts ever witnessed.

If you had to prop up anyone, why not the Sergeant from the original intro, the Force Commander from Dawn of War 2 who pushes through an Eldar spell and chainswords her in the gut with the epicly guttural "This is OUR planet, WITCH" or Davian Thule as he manages to -snipe- Orks with a Heavy Bolter on full auto?

Indrick Boreale is only good for how he butchers yelling "SPACE MARINE" because my friends and I, every time we play Kill Team or Space Marine will chant "SPAHSE MAHREEN, AHTAHK!"

I think Ironlore was just determined to end a powerful game on the worst note they can think of because they treated the entire thing like one giant joke. "Vance Stubbs", really? Really?

I missed that memo. How do you know? I understand that some will die, but the majority?




I agree... And with the fast growing tree in Oasis, well...

Various sources.
1) According to Eden, "anyone or anything affected by mutation will be eliminated".
2) President Richardson says that just one generation of full outside exposure leads to mutations Enclave deems unworthy of living. (The Vault Dweller's, who left the vault after Fo1, daughter is Arroyo's elder). "Your tribe's DNA has changed since your ancestor left the vault. Unavoidable. All that background radiation you've been exposed to."
3) The Brotherhood is not nearly as confined as the Enclave or vaults. Scout patrols were made after the war, the Exodus from Mariposa to Lost Hills, journey to East, constant exposure to background radiation in the Citadel, likely merging with local population throughout the years.. the list goes on.
4) Eden makes no remark of possibility of Brotherhood survival. The only ones he says will live are vault dwellers and "the good people of the Enclave". And for more emphasis Eden isn't even sure the Lone Wanderer would live - it's "likely" you would be immune.

Pistolero: As a point of fact, the Lone Wanderer does NOT survive exposure to the FEV tainted water. Drink it, and you die. There is also no code which checks to see if the imbiber of the cocktail is actually a vault dweller and/or enclave member, so it kills them too.

Basically, it's complete poison and will kill anyone and anything that touches it.

I would say that the reason Vault Dwellers and Enclave members would survive the poisoning is because they do not, in fact, rely upon outside sources for their water supply. They never come in contact with the FEV, so they don't die from it. So really Eden isn't WRONG, he's just being a misleading AI bastardo.

And why is that?

Oh yes. Its because the LW is not pure human (he was born outside the Vault) therefore he should die when drinking it. Thus this is more evidence for the selective nature of the virus than it is for a "blank slate" nature of the virus.



What?

The virus apparently targets based on the genetic makeup of the individual. Its Science!, although I'd imagine it works on similar principles regarding people who are predisposed to a disease or immune to it.



Evidence?



Could be.

Although I'd ague he is probably more misleading through knowing that the LW is a mutant. However its just as likely that he truly believes the LW is a Vault Dweller and thus will not be affected.

Kill the BoS, then The Enclave.

bunch of worthless people in those factions.

Clearly the Republic of Dave is the only way to go.

The only "evidence" I have for my supposition that the FEV is poison is the code used to process the drinking of it. So not in-game, but metagame evidence:

Attached to DLC03FEVWaterEffect:

ScriptName DLC03FEVWaterScriptBegin ScriptEffectStart	If DLC03CreatorQuest.FEVaquaPuraCount >= 3		Player.Kill	Else		Set DLC03CreatorQuest.FEVaquaPuraCount to DLC03CreatorQuest.FEVaquaPuraCount +1		ShowMessage DLC03FEVwaterMsg	EndIfEnd

Translation: If the player has drunk more than 3 aqua puras, they die. Otherwise, count up once and check again next time you drink it.

SCN WaterBeggarNPCSCRIPTBEGIN OnLoad	If ( GetDead == 0 )		If ( GetAv Variable10 == 2 ) || GetItemCount DLC03AquaPura > 0			Kill		endif	endifEND

If the water beggar drinks it, he dies. Note: This script is actually bugged, because it does not check to see if there is FEV in the water at all.... although that is obviously what is intended.

There is also the tangential evidence that Enclave do not drink water when it is placed in their inventory. That's circumstantial tho.

Its only poison to non-pure humans. That was my point.

If you are trying to prove that it is poison to the average wastelander, then there is no need because I recognize this fully. I couldn't be an Eden supporter if I didn't.



Which, again, is what should happen since the player character is not a pure human.



Water beggars aren't pure human (ie. they are the guys in ragged clothes sitting outside Megaton and such). Thus they, like the LW, should die when they drink the water.



Very circumstantial and essentially means nothing if its true (if you'll permit me to be frank about it).

As the good Lieutenant pointed out, the Lone Wanderer is not a vault dweller. He was born in Jefferson Memorial to two Wastelanders, though possibly vault dwellers themselves (you can find James/Catherine family photo in Vault 21). By the time LW is born his parents are inevitably mutated beyond recognition, and the player will inevitably be exposed to unnatural amounts of radiation.


The FEV used to work by killing EVERYONE, including the Enclave, had they not been vaccinated. This was altered in Fallout 3 to spare those with pure human DNA (much more sane IMO, on a global scale). Just as implausible, just as SCIENCE!

P.S. I oppose using game mechanics to justify claims of game events.. By that logic humanity has lost the ability to go prone, lost their digestive systems and the list goes on.

And how is it going to identify pure and non-pure humans? We've already estabilished on The Vault that pure/nonpure distinction is a purely fictional construct created by Enclave propagandists.

The vault is hardly a reliable source.
Dr. Curling in Fallout 2 clearly points out that near-humans have underwent severe changes in DNA that they could not scientifically be classified "human" in a sense.
Quoting certain pieces of Dr. Curling's dialogue:

"You're actually rather different, at least your DNA is. A rather unfortunate effect of generations of background radiation, I assume. [...] Oh, your DNA, is more than just a *little* different. It's quite different. [...] Why the information that you and your tribe are no longer human, of course. Since your tribe has only been out of a vault (let's see Vault 13 wasn't it?) for some eighty-odd years, anyone out longer is certain to have been even more compromised. Yes, I'm afraid that the conclusion is unavoidable. [...] Why, I thought that I had made myself perfectly clear. The conclusion that you, and all your kind, are no longer human."


It's not defined how the DNA is different, as the whole thing is unexplainable in real life science as is many other things in Fallout*, but it is a fact that near humans are no longer humans in a genetic sense. I suppose you could say that Pure Humans and Near Humans are what Homo Sapiens and Homo Neanderthalis were to each other.


* The FEV, the number one in Fallout lore, is the biggest load of crap at the same time. Something that could, for someone with little understanding of biology summed up as: "viruses don't work like that". My point is that many things in Fallout don't make sense so we just have to take the NPCs' word for them. Personal speculation is worthless.

When was it ever stated that it only sought out pure-humans anyway, it certainly wasn't the case in Fallout 2 and in Fallout 3... it's Eden telling you. Of course Eden's lying, he wants the Lone Wanderer to do his dirty work - for the promises of a high position in the Enclave, a laughable promise that is obviously a lie - only to then be killed; a self-solving problem. Hardly something that requires a discussion at all really.

Given the choice between:

A. Eden was seriously going to let a 19 year-old and, from the Enclave perspective - mass murdering terrorist replace a Colonel.
B. Eden was full of [censored] and the virus just kills humanoids that haven't been innoculated.

I know which one I prefer, even as someone who generally doesn't have a high opinion of President Eden.

EDIT: Though I have to say, your primary arguement was that it didn't seem possible... this is Fallout you know, where a virus can make people in Super Mutants, where a virus can cause massive skeletal growth and restructuring and greatly change DNA.

You forget, Eden doesn't know of The Lone Wanderer's outside birth. Eden believes he's a Vault Dweller as well. 'Due to your upbringing in the Vault, it's likely you are immune to the effects of the FEV virus.' or something to that effect, point is, Eden isnt making a sinister motive of deception, he believes that he's a Vault Dweller.

The point is that the FEV requires a vaccine, not that it "seeks" non-pure humans, that's the discussion. Makes much more sense for Eden to have been hoping that the FEV water would just kill the LW for him, as dedicated as people in the Enclave typically are you honestly think that they will let a 19 year-old outsider - who's killed them - go from being a target to being a senior officer ordering them? Eden isn't that stupid, nor do I believe he has the inclination too allow any more outside influcences into the Enclave, he needs to maintain a cult of personality and bringing in outsiders non-versed in the Enclave way of life won't help.

From the way I understand it, the Modified FEV virus doesnt require it. The one in Fallout 3 is designed to pinpoint 'mutated' genetic things and it kills them, this means all Enclave personnel are immune to the Modified FEV as they are pure strain humans. The FEV in Fallout 2 required an innoculation, true, but in Fallout 3, Eden seems to have refined it in a way that means theres no need for needles and vaccines, just drink and let the water choose. Also, it doesnt matter about the Enclave, if the Lone Wanderer is capable of being on par with Liberty Prime as a WoMD against the Enclave, imagine what he could do as a tool of the Enclave. He may have killed Enclave troops, but based on Eden's personality, it's not unlikely he sees The Lone Wanderers actions as forgivable if he's willing to help return America to it's former glory alongside the Enclave. It's not about stupidity, it's about practicality. And with Autumn making a spat with Eden, if you use the MFEV, you are by all dictations more loyal than Autumn, something Eden could use.

That's the discussion, whether it really is as Eden describes or whether he was lying to convince the Lone Wanderer.



Again, my point is that regardless of what Eden considers the better option, the Enclave is as much it's people and it's unlikely that they would accept orders from the Lone Wanderer; any clean-up operations post-Project could be easily handled by the Army and not by some outsider that threatens the stability of the regime. A hypothetical pro-Enclave Lone Wanderer is ultimately less loyal to the organisation as he is the goal, he might be another Autumn in time, willing to sacrifice the American Government - which Eden does idneed seem to love - for more productive and immediate results.

I'd be inclined to agree except The Enclave has had no presense asside from the Eyebots which IIRC only showed up a few years prior to Fallout 3, and they even have no remote 'change update' database, as the Enclave was unable to enter Vault 101 because they changed the passwords. All of this leads me to believe The Enclave relies on faulty and outdated information, same as any other post-war paramilitary organization.



I don't know, considering Eden is willing to execute his own troops just to safeguard your escape to what is more or less the Oval Office, it's obvious Eden values the Enclave second to America. Eden puts more trust in the PC than he does in his organization to get this done, it's obvious Eden is aware you're a force that could continuously stem the tide against all comers. If you're willing to sacrifice the lives of countless people just to play Eden's game of chess game of genetic purity, I doubt there's anything you could do to sacrifice the government to pursue the governments goals. I mean heck, TLW even more or less single handedly wipes out AAF, he's pretty much a one man platoon. Considering the DLC only goes 1 path up to the very end of the DLC, it's obvious canon he wipes out AAF to get to the mobile platform. Had Bethesda given players the choice of ACTUALLY helping the Enclave, they'd probably have a marble and gold paved D.C. by now :laugh: