I was with you until you said this " And will Oblivion fans be as mature". I'm a fan of all the TES games and Oblivion is my second favorite game next to Daggerfall. You can't just slap a vast amount of TES fans across the face just because they play Oblivion, which I personally like the overall game better than Morrowind's, just because they allowed themselves to be immersed in the game instead of trying to compare Morrowind and Oblivion the whole time they played it. But yes, every game is a step forward and if it uses has the soul of Morrowind (the main story line) and the Heart of Oblivion (the immersive world with sidequests with depth) combined with the body of Skyrim (improved combat and other new systems) I truly believe it will be just as good as the best TES and only time will tell if it can surpass them. As for the main music theme, that is the main music theme for the TES series as was said in the Sound of Skyrim videos. Morrowind had the same element in it that Oblivions did and now Skyrim had, if you listen to the three of them you will notice it. The sphere centurion first made it's appearance in the game Redguard also btw.

Don't take my words out of context, thanks. A more appropriate term for you to have said is Morrowind is a more complete game. Oblivion had a lot of content cut/changed and various other issues (radiant AI, shadows, the list goes on), so it was a shell of what it could have been. It's still a great game, don't get me wrong. Otherwise I wouldn't have spent the money on the Collectors Edition and on the down-loadable content, expansions, you get the idea.

Those "Skyrim is all snow" debates could have been stopped more easily, too. Skyrim in Arena had areas with no snow.

Anyway, for the topic, I'm going to go with a "What?" stance. Skyrim will be its own game. When people fail to grasp that concept and expect a copy of this, that, or a combination of this and that, we get half a decade of complaints about the game and its fans. It's not like it's ever happened before, of course. I'm just speculating.

Right, because it's not like an empire has ever existed in the jungle before. Lol Maya? Who are they? Olmec? LOL just stop making words up! And yeah, it probably was for the sake of being different even though you conceded that Todd Howard said he was trying to emulate LotR.[/sarcasm] Yeah, you're right, it probably does make sense, even though the only place it doesn't make sense is in the game and I could care less if it made sense in the real world since that wasn't what I took issue with.

That's more AI than Morrowind had and I'm willing to be 5 Septims that Bethesda cut plenty of things from Morrowind. How is Morrowind a more complete game? NPCs that stand in one place all the time is clearly better than Oblivion's AI. The shadows weren't any better in Morrowind. The rest of that list doesn't pop into my brain at the moment, but I'm sure the copy and paste dialogue and repetitive quests of Morrowind definitely made the game more complete. :rolleyes:

Come on.. Cyrodill was depicted in Arena to be pretty much the same climate as in Oblivion. Why doesn't anyone get angry about the first transformation (from forest to jungle) but people get up in arms about it returning to it's original conception?

I have really high hopes for Skyrim

Yes, I clearly am not only claiming that being the creator of something is an excuse for changing it, but am also totally rejecting it and claiming it isn't real. Did you know I'm also planning on splintering off and recreating Oblivion how I thought it should have been and will continue in the shadow of Bethesda based on how I think things should be? Lol. Wrong. I'm not, and none of what you said was truth, and I am not rejecting anything.

Hey, here's an example for you. If right up until release, Bethesda kept going on about how Skyrim would take place in the icy, mountainous north, and then out of nowhere we all found out that it is actually an island paradise and then were told in-game the reason for this is because aliens from space came and then cut the whole province off from the main continent with lasers and then moved it under Elsweyr with tractor beams and then never had anyone question it ever or even have it mentioned again, would you think that would a flimsy excuse? Especially if you found out that the creators liked the TV show Dexter and wanted to make the climate similar to Miami? Or would you criticize those who called it a flimsy excuse and then claim they said that they called the creators wanting to change things a flimsy excuse?


Lolwut? Some fool went and tried to say that if Cyrodiil were actually a jungle it would only be a few more, larger, trees. This has nothing to do with "realism", I was pointing out that if it were a jungle, things would be a little more different than that.

Did you ignore the posts about how the change to jungle broke the original conception and lore in the first place? They didn't even give a reason for that change. They just did it.

1. Morrowind was more complete "for it's time" than Oblivion was.

2. As if Oblivion's NPCs don't do the same. Many times I've gone into inns and just seen people staring at walls all day until they decided to sporadically enter conversation about mudcrabs. SO ADVANCED!!! :whistling:

3. You can blame the new inception of DX8 for that, as DX8 was just released around the time Morrowind came out.. When Oblivion came out, DX9 had already been out for awhile, and yet Oblivion's shadows failed to deliver. With Morrowind, it was a technological limitation. With Oblivion, it was either because of hardware limitations (console), or because the devs didn't really care.

4. The dialogue in Morrowind was actually more varied that Oblivion's. And even if it wasn't, I'd rather just have a paragraph of repeated text I can skip through than repeated lines of audio that I can't usually.

Dont' get me wrong, I thought Oblivion was a great game, but it just didn't feel as "grand" and complete as Morrowind was. As an RPG, it was a great game, but as an Elder Scrolls game, it failed to deliver.

Morrowind's dialogue was not more varied. That's definitely nostalgia talking. Walk around Vivec and talk to named NPCs. Then do the same in the Imperial City. Morrowind's NPCs were copy and paste textboxes while the NPCs in Oblivion, despite having less to individually say, have more actual unique dialogue to say. They also have their own schedules, and that AI is still more advanced than Morrowind's, so why anyone would bring it up as a point to say that Morrowind is more complete is beyond me. You're key word is "feels", as in you personally felt Morrowind was more grand and complete. That doesn't mean it is.

No need to get an attitude. I'm not talking about the advancements in technology that Oblivion made over Morrowind. Sure those made it obviously better than Oblivion. I'm referring more to what the player could actually do in Morrowind. By the time I had completed the factions quests, main quest, knights of the nine, shivering isles, and various quests found around cities, there was really nothing else to do in Oblivion. There was no point to exploration, as level-scaled loot meant you would never find anything worth looking for in dungeons. NPCs would also scale to your level, loot and all, so it's not like you had to go and find good equipment either. Everything in Oblivion was always an inch in front of your face, and because of that, it felt boring and drab aside from the main content the game offered.

Morrowind's level scaling was much more lenient, so I didn't have to worry about bandits having daedric armor. I actually had to explore Vvardenfell and find the armor. Bethesda also hand placed a lot of the rare items and equipment, so it gave much more meaning to exploring and truly enjoying the world. Believe it or not, but the tiniest details really do count and make more a much better experience. There was just overall a lot more content in general in Morrowind. More factions, more interesting places (Morrowind may have been smaller, but had many different areas. Oblivion just felt like the occasional Imperial City and then forest. This will be resolved in Skyrim as there are various environments in Skyrim with different climates and looks), more choice in general. Had Bethesda had more time in Oblivion to fix the radiant AI, improve shadows, just add more content that was surely cut, it would have been a much more rewarding experience.

Let me just clarify this. Morrowind is a "complete" game. Oblivion was not as complete. So I liked Morrowind better. Skyrim won't have the development time constraints Oblivion had, so I'm not too worried about it feeling complete.

You misunderstood me. What I meant is that at the moment there's a very vocal group of Morrowind fans that bash Oblivion for numerous things and there's a group of Oblivion fans who answer in kind and I'm wondering if the roles will switch with Skyrim. Maybe I shouldn't have generalized, but I'm very curious when it comes issues like that. I personally have been one of those Morrowind fans that wouldn't listen, but if you read through this thread you'll see my current stance. I prefer Morrowind, but Oblivion was also a gret installment in the series and despite what some might say it carried along a lot from the other TES games.



Well that's even better isn't it? The theme that appeared first in Morrowind is now the TES theme and with the centurion we get ties even to one of the "spin-offs" (never got to play Redguard myself ).

Actually, I wouldn't think that much of it. Sure, I'd be confused as all hell, but I wouldn't worry about it seeing as the lore is theirs and they have the right to do with it what they please.

Hell, I wouldn't even care if they pulled a Highlander 2 out of their asses with the lore.

OK, here are my feelings: I won't lie, I was not around pre-Morrowind. I liked Morrowind. One reason was because it was very alien and unique. I never felt "Hey, this is weird and foreign, I don't like it". I felt "Hey, this is unique and cool, I like it". I live in a temperate area, I have woods in my backyard (well, sort of. They are behind my house, but I'm pretty sure it is public property. Not like a park, but just government owned). I have seen wolves plenty of times, you are lucky to not spot a few deer when driving the back roads. None of that is new to me. When you hear Cyrodiil is a jungle in Morrowind, and then here the next game will be there, and like alien things, you are disappointed when that doesn't turn out to be true. And, again, it's not so much them changing it that bugs me, it's there reason FOR changing it (or lack thereof in-game). I was only disappointed when I found out it wasn't jungle. What irritated me was why it was changed.


Not sure how you did that, but read the above.

I'm referring to the quality of what a player could actually do. After two questlines and several side quests in Morrowind, I'm bored to tears because it's all too repetitive. The quests in Morrowind didn't have much variety between them. As for technology, even Daggerfall's NPCs walked around and locked their doors at night. Then we get to the gameplay systems. I'm convinced that Morrowind's stealth system is just broken and, again, I thought even Daggerfall had better combat and stealth use. I agree on better level-scaling, but that's all I agree on.

I hope they put the imagination that they put into Morrowind into Skyrim. Oblivion was just very generic in my opinion. Not that it was bad overall, it was a great game in it's own right, but Morrowind was a much more savory experience.

Hope so. Hope so.

:flamethrower: PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE!! Don't change this into a Morrowind vs. Oblivion thread! This is suppose to be a thread about how the TES games get ALONG and if they can be mixed!!


Although this discussion seems to indicate that no matter if the games get along, their fans seem to be incapable of that feat

Is this the time for me to say I think Daggerfall was generally a better game or will flames surround me as if I was training in Oblivion's destruction spells? :biggrin:

I hope they take all the good things from past TES games, so they can please everyone and we can have an AMAZING game!

Sure is the nostalgia talking with the fact that I'M PLAYING IT RIGHT NOW. And I can tell you for a fact that the dialogue is much more varied than Oblivion's. And I'm sure lines concerning "mudcrabs" and "the dark brotherhood" (which are spoken by EVERYONE) are way more unique than say, and archer describing his trade, or even giving you little hints, etc.

As for schedules, again that's a limitation of the times.

And tell me, what does stripped down AI have to do with a game being more complete? Your excuse of Oblivion being more complete is just about as strong as mine.

When you say "I think", I don't care what you say because you acknowledge its your opinion, but I really like Daggerfall, in many ways, more than Morrowind.

Because you don't seem to be getting it, let me try to put it more concisely: What you said is like saying I am not allowed to be critical of a film I watched because I didn't make the movie.
anologous example:
Me: "I did not like that movie for the following reasons: The acting was sub-par, the plot did not make sense, and the dialog was poorly written."
You: "Right, so the reason that they are the ORIGINAL CREATORS OF THE MOVIE ITSELF is a reason as to why the movie was bad."

Yes, I'm going to "fwoosh" you for an attempt to turn it into a Daggerfall vs Morrowind vs Oblivion thread :flamethrower:

I fully agree that questing in Oblivion was overall better. My issue though is there isn't much left after that really worth doing. My character on Oblivion just didn't not have the longevity my character on Morrowind did. Again, this goes back to them only having 6 months of development time with the hardware, so a lot didn't make it in to the final product.

AI definitely improved in Oblivion, but you need more than just more realistic NPCs to truly make a world feel full and worth exploring. Hopefully the radiant storytelling will compliment nicely with the radiant AI in Skyrim.

Combat was also horrific in Morrowind. Especially melee combat, but again, I'm referring more to what one could actually do. Oblivion did a lot right, but in terms of the overall RPG element of being complete, it was just lacking.