I found it original of Interplay to have the Chinese the arch enemy of the United States before the Great War, and not the Soviet Union which in most media during the Cold War was the arch nemesis of the United States, anyone seen Red Dawn? Its a good movie from the 1980's.

Back on track, the purpose of this topic is what you think the Soviet Union was also against the U.S.? Do you think they might've fought the U.S. and helping there Chinese allies? Remember the U.S. at that time hated communists due to China invading Alaska, but it could just the Chinese and not the Soviets.

I know in the Fallout wikia that the Soviet Union and the U.S. had diplomatic relationships.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Soviet_Union

But since its from a wiki I doubt its creditbility.

I hope in Fallout 4 Bethesda might shed some light on the Soviet Union, maybe from a russian Ghoul. I'll think that'll be interesting, and also interesting to give some back story to the Soviets since they're the ones who made communism power to be reckon with.

The wiki's information is correct. There are no mentios of USSR except Natalia the playable character from Fallout 1 and a few lesser sources.
The only Russian in the series with Natalia is Dukov from Fallout 3.

USSR would have had no reason to help China. Russia has always been able to feed itself due to unlimited supply of natural resources and space, and the fact that Soviet-Chinese relations were broken in the 60's.

I say that Russian and China fed eachother supplies, and now they are not.


I real life, if you guys have payed attention, Russia is making another economical alliance with China. China hands over cash, and Russia hands over oil and raw material.

In Fallout, it is probable Russia decided to forget aiding China against U.S and the only thing they provided was probally the weapons china used.

We also have to remember one thing: the resource wars.

Russia/USSR, with it's vast expanse of... utter nothingness (Siberia)... would be a prime target for invasion by countries looking for moreresources. After all, the other nations are exhausting all of the oil they can find, causing oil prices to skyrocket so high that it makes today's prices look rock-bottom. This is why China invaded Alaska- for the oil fields. It's likely they, or another nation, was looking to the USSR for the same reasons.

At any rate, from what I've been able to gather, the state of the world before the bomb-drop seemed to be a massive Free-for-all resource grab; very few countries would be allying with each other in this case...

One of the pre-made player characters in FO1 was a granddaughter of a Soviet consul. So there must have been diplomatic relations.

The Vault is very reliable. Ausir is very good at keeping the rubbish out and almost everything is referenced... IIRC I think Ausir has also been involved in the official Polish translations for several Fallout games (I could be wrong).

You're not.

Of course, sometimes some errors slip through the cracks, but most of the info should be correct.

China and the Soviet Union weren't exactly buddies throughout the cold war. Their relations started to go down the drain when Nikita Khrushchev denounced Stalin's ways whom Mao idolized. In fact a war between Russia and China felt more likely than a war with the US.

I highly doubt that since China makes its own varient of Russian weapons, and aircraft. Russia never supplies China with actual aircraft, even today. China is just given the blueprints basicly, and they make the Russian varient sutable for their pilots, and make some modifications. If you look at a Chinese MiG and a Russian MiG, they will be very different in some aspects like engines, control positioning and wiring from time to time (This can be said for the Chinese MiG-21).

Same with weapons, the Chinese Ak is smaller than the Russian Ak, and in some instances are completely different on the inside, but look the same on the outside.

Hmmm. I guess your right, but then again China doesn't completely use the AK.

They do have their own variant assault rifle that looks like a FAMAS but isn't one. What's it called.

Actually the QBZ-95 and QBZ-95B is a varient of the British Bullpup Assault Rifle, licensed by China. It is not a Chinese varient of the French FAMAS.

There are 3 major problems, that always arise when addressing the Soviet Union in context to the Fallout Universe:

1) Did Gorbachev's Reforms of Perestroika and Glasnost go through? (Or was the USSR, instead ruled by a hardliner like Yegor Ligachev, following the death of Constantine Chernenko).

2) Did the Sino-Soviet split occur?

3) Did Joseph Stalin still die in 1953?

I think that in the Fallout world Soviets might have reformed like the Chinese did in our world, while China remained governed by hardline communists.

If the relationship of the Fallout Soviet Union with Fallout China was like the one they had in our real world then they weren't very good friends.
Thats for sure.


In our world, they had lots of ideological differences and territorial issues that strained their relationship quite heavily.
In 1966 they even ceased all diplomatic relations with each and did not restore them before 1987 !

At one time China even accused the Soviet Union of "social imperialism"

In 1969, the situation deteriorated so much that both came to the brink of war. A few shots were fired over a dispute about the Zhenbao (or Damanskiy) Island.

You see, i would not take it for granted that they must have been allied in the Fallout world.

1) I don't think so, as those set the stage for the collapse.

2) I'd think so, as it makes more sense that Russia wasn't buddy-buddy with China.

3) Good God I hope so.

Now that I think about it, if the Soviet Union didn't collapse, wouldn't terrorism across the board drop significantly? I mean, a majority of terrorist attacks involving infantry fighting used the AK47s that happened to get spread to God knows where, and sold. So, of course it's not like the lack of freely-available AK47s would halt terrorism, but I should think it would have at least reduced the number.

No.

Terrorism is about a cause... Not about using an AK47. Fanatics are fanatical about reshaping the world to their vision, not about using a particular weapon.

They'd simply use a different weapon.

We're also very close to the Forum rules line here....

If Stalin died in '53 would Nikita Kruchev still have been put into control, and started moving away from Stalinism. And along with that, would the more conservative part of the Communist Party in Moscow still kick Kruchev out of power, or would he have stayed in power and continued to make the Communist Party more of what Lenin and Trotsky invisioned?

My running assumption, is that Soviet history, pretty much progressed as normal until the death of Chernenko, when instead of putting Gorbachev in, Yegor Ligachev(a Hardliner), would have taken power instead.

Also, I would have to say, that depending on whether or not the Cold War came to an end, along with the amount of US interventionism into the Middle East. If anything, I would think that the USSR would have a lot more problems with terrorism(due to their continued war in Afghanistan).

Ah, but that brings up another question. Would the Soviet Union still had the motive or cause to even invade Afghanistan in the first place? And I think on Vault Wiki, it says that the US and Soviet Union had a more open relationship with one another, so if the Soviet Union did still invade Afghanistan, would the Mujahedeen still been backed by the US (via Stinger missles etc.) or would the US just looked the other way, and agreed with the Soviet Union?

RRRRRRR

I said LOOKS LIKE THE FRENCH FAMAS.

This is dangerously close to present politics, but I'm going to allow it for the time being, on condition that all members refrain from any kind of rhetoric, grandstanding, or jingoism.

The reasons for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan are complex and regional. Afghanistan has long (and often successfully) been used as a sort of passed pawn to cause trouble for perceived enemies of whoever the faction in power is allied with. The Soviet Union was long allied with Afghanistan against the British occupation, and the Afghan army was largely Soviet-trained and sympathetic to the country's large Marxist faction, the PDPA.

There were two coups in the 1970s: in 1973, King Zahir's cousin Daoud overthrew the monarchy; then in 1978, the PDPA, backed by the army and probably encouraged by the Soviets (who were worried about Daoud's incipient Western leanings), overthrew Daoud. The PDPA government was a failure: deeply divided, brutal and unpopular, lost support of the army, and faced an Islamist insurgency backed in part by the Carter administration (Operation Cyclone) as a means of creating trouble for the Soviets. The government repeatedly called for Soviet military assistance, and finally got it in the form of an 80,000-troop invasion that decapitated the PDPA.

So yes, I suppose that if Washington and the Kremlin had been interested in constructive dealings over troublesome places like Afghanistan at that time, the invasion might have been blunted, and US backing of the Islamists might not have occurred.

But it doesn't. It looks like the British Bullpup, that's why I said that.




That's what I figured after I posted. But I thought I censored just enough so it wasn't present polititcs.

Well I think that if in the Fallout timeline, Ligachev did gain power, he probably would not have pulled troops out of Afghanistan....and would either have either overcome the insurgency....or perhaps he was eventually "removed" and a party moderate took charge....which could then explain the move towards detente without Glasnost/Perestroika & Gorby.

One of the prerolled Player Characters in Fallout was Natalia, the granddaughter of a Soviet diplomat who went into Vault 13 at the time the war happened. The soviets are also mentioned in the tech museum in F3. It's easy to assume that the soviet union fell on hard times in the Fallout universe without collapsing altogether, while China filled the void left by the USSR without capitalist reform.