They weren't trying to simplify it, they were trying to focus more on what you can do with a bow and arrows.

What exactly did we get out of it? The same perks as all the other weapon skills and...? If they had really made bow combat more interesting than it was in Morrowind that would have been fine. But they removed other ranged weapons and didn't really enhance the bow combat experience.

And I've always objected to Oblivion's lack of spears. Sure they were kind of thrown together implementation wise in Morrowind, but atleast the ground work was there for other people to expand on.

So the "zoom" function necessitated the removal of crossbows and shuriken?

While I agree with you, Albides, I wanted to add that the Spear of Bitter Mercy quest in "Morrowind" wasn't bad. My character used the Spear for part of the game if I remember right. There was another spear with a Constant Effect light that I used in the early stages of the game for exploring caves. But it's true that swords and other weapons were more commonly used.

As has been said, it was more a design mechanic... just like the levitation, it's just it appears that no-one's questioned this, so none of the Devs have had to do any weaselling out of it...

Personally, I loved spears.

My joke reason would probably be that they were all appropriated for productions of The Lusty Argonian Maid when Crassius Curio became a great success after somone calling themselves "The Nerevarine" joined his theatre troupe.

That's because they announced it halfway through that they'd close the cities because the loading times. There weren't really any questions to be asked about it.

If Cyrodiil outlaws spears, only outlaws will have spears. . . . Ah, forget it.

Spears are very much so needed. The fewer types of weapons you have to choose from, the more menial the game becomes, and next thing you know we'll have a game with *just* blades and bows, then we suddenly loose everything that made the series the series in the first place. I mean really, I put *all* of it down to devs being lousy, LOUSY at what they're being paid to do (other than the fact that who knows, they might have just been misguided by their superiors the whole time, so no disrespect to anyone becuase making a game is horridly hard work, but it's just a matter of opinion). It's like somewhere after the phenomenal success of Morrowind, they all became greedy bastards and then this gaming company that had so much originality going for it turned into a [censored] Microsoft cooperation and figured the quicker they pumped out a new game they quicker they got their due, and that's not how things should work, yet nearly all gaming companies do it. It's a matter of quality AND quantity for TES, and I do condone Oblivion for having this impressive gameworld as a whole, it was repetitive for the most part, and less immersive than everyone would have liked. There were no real places of interest other than a few nice waterfalls. I just can't imagine what the artistic director of Oblivion thought he was doing. Perhaps it's just the wrong people in charge, but to be honest, I'd rather wait 5 years and get a game that will be forever crushed into my memory then wait 3 years and get something that will make you wonder what was happening that whole time.

EDIT: And don't feed me any of that 'Oh well YOU try being a dev, etc etc' crap, becuase it IS what I want to do, and I want to deliver.

Heck, scripting and animations is kind of easy really. FOR THE LOVE OF GODS, THEY HAD 1 BONESET THAT USED WEAPONS! 1 animator and some minor scripting and we would be allowed to use polearm-type weapons.
Creating the models and animations is piece of cake in comparision to other things.

My rude awser:
Nevarine decided to bann and destroy all polearms after seeing what happens when you forget to slay demigods on your watch.

I wish you could have a spear and shield. I'd use that all the time. It's a very effective weapon. Range and all.

If they come back, there should be the ability to use them one handed with a shield or two handed... one handed for less accuracy and slightly less damage.

edit: a completely unnecessary post gone.

That's Gameplay, not Lore. There are spears, crossbows and throwable coffee cups in Tamriel just fine, but not in the game.

A lot of people shouted loud and long about spears, lev and closed cities - and they were swamped by others who accused them of dev-bashing or just flamed them.

Again it comes down to concerns over adapting the game for the consoles and I suspect either something in the structure of the programming required for console compatibility or unwillingness on the part of the console makers to support anything that would make their own games seem too limited by comparison. In the second case the bottom line would have been a console makers veto - play the game our way or no access to console release.

Also I guess gamesas's investors would have opinions about that ... very hard to back up under that kind of pressure.

They had to do it the console way = what I call consolitis.

What are you talking about? They own the forum.

Are you sure you're not just too quick to invent epic tales of repression?

I found it greatly enhanced, personally.

Eh, from what I saw, all they did was just add physics to it with some other stuff. To me it's still cool, but just not revolutionary or anything like that. Woulda been better if other ranged weapons were in it, especially the throwing stars. I was looking for that specifically in TES IV and was dissappointed.

As M'aiq said, when you don't throw your weapon, you only need one.

Don't insult yourself like that CP. It's getting a bit annoying.

Wow, your arguments are SOOOO greatly backed up.

The problem with M'aiq's reasoning, is that it puts the kabosh on bows too. Arrows are a disposable commodity.

:rofl:

M'aiq has a point though. Arrows are simply wooden shafts with metal tips and feathers, they're easier and cheaper to mass produce than throwing stars and throwing knives. And you need someone with knowledge of Akaviri weaponry to make throwing stars anyway. Darts could work, but with bows with enchantments that add damage to the arrows, bows have a big advantage in damage potential. And I remember in Morrowind that the higher-quality throwing weapons weren't very cost-efficient; 2000 for ebony stars and 4000 for daedric darts.

The higher quality ones were also very rare; I'd imagine tehy had high enchantment capabilities as well.

If that was all true and there really were no good reasons to use thrown weapons, then how come people in Tamriel are using them? The problem with your argument is that you are using gameplay aspects to argue for their removal while those gameplay aspects are easily changed between each game to make a weapon more effective.

Now to address M'aiq. He clearly doesn't realize that Darts and throwing stars are light and fast and that once everyone is dead you can pluck out the used weapons at your leisure. Considering darts, especially ebony darts, aren't quite so fragile you'll have a good chance of recovering them.

They're ideal for characters that don't want to take cumbersome bow or shield with them. Having one hand free to hold a weapon and the other to throw darts they can deliver a punishment from up close while staying out of reach. When combined with poison they can debilitate one foe while taking on another.

Then again I suspect M'aiq is hogging them all because he's exactly the sort of character that would benefit from thrown weapons.