Let's be honest, 99% of the people replying here only ever used 2-3 different spells come endgame anyway.

I'd rather have 85 different, hand-crafted spells than the rather weak spell creator. Sure it was nice to make your own spells, but choice is an illusion when there's a definitive "best spell".

85 is still a hell of a lot. Raiding in WoW, most classes use 8 or so different abilities. Diablo 3 has around 20 spells per class, with only 8 being useable at once. Guild Wars 2 will have similar. Yes these are online games, but they are still RPGs.

The bigger worry is what % of that 85 spell list are going to be useless and/or stupid, and if the spells are actually balanced relative to eachother while still being different enough to warrant having more than a handful in your spellbook.

I thought Pete said on Twitter once that it was actually 85 spell effects... I'm going to be seriously, seriously disappointed if its actually 85 spells in total - that seems far too little to me. :/

Exactly.

I'm pretty sure, based on descriptions, that this new system is going to eliminate as many of the superfluous spells as it can.

It's spell effects, not spells. Just the usual overreaction going on.

I disagree on core feature for todays games - maybe true for Arena (Daggerfall was my introduction to TES), but not anymore. When I play as a mage, it's the character that is supposed to be strong in what he does, not me tweaking the numbers to max potential, more than likely leaving the system fully vulnerable to power play exploits. Plus it most likely interferes greatly with new magic methods, and I'm not talking "flashy graphics" but function wise. Set in stone? Maybe so, but that allows vanilla set in stone system to be consequently stronger - hence for me "bringing back magic to TES". Playing a mage shouldn't have "deeper gameplay" than any other arch type, simply because they are a mage. For balancing purposes, this should be as equal as possible no matter your approach to your character (imo). Magic is just a tool, just like a sword. It doesn't take half of a brain to use a sword, neither should it to use magic.

This is why I never bothered with playing mages. They became utterly boring. Standard spells made everything extremely hard, and yet indefinitely convenient, whereas powerplaying using in depth understanding of the spell system, made you utterly invulnerable and boring. And I proved this to myself by starting the main quest at level 44 at maximum difficulty where (except for Kwatch) I didn't have to do any fighting at all, disregarding Paradise of course. I'm currently going for a power played max everything character, to see how that goes, but I do suspect it involves quite a bit more work, if possible at all at max difficulty, without resorting to magic/invisibility/other known exploits. Sorry, but this smells like bad game mechanics for miles and miles.


Yes of course, but it also gets old and annoying very fast. Kind of like my own rampage against fast travel system, which probably have earned me a place on many ignore lists. A feature I have learned to love myself lately, although mostly to filter out bad quoters, shouters, and message count spammers that never add anything useful to a discussion. And in this forum, oh my god are there many of them...


Look at the videos. Not a pure mage, and still quite adept in using magic, magic that feels pretty strong as is. I am (at this stage, and I hope I'm not disappointed) convinced this is a well thought out plan, and not just something whipped up quickly in a half hour brainstorming session. It won't be as diverse, but does it have to be? I think we'll be getting more for less, rather than silly combinations made on the spell making altar that didn't even work. Like constant effect disintegrate armor on self to grind armorer skill. The game is our game master, and the devs has to try to make a game master that upholds reasonable law and order within the game. So far, that has not been the case, and grinding and exploiting has been pretty much encouraged.

I want more summons

Assuming the spells use the relevant skill as a multiplier of sorts - so each spell becomes more powerful as you level the skill up - surely we actually end up with just as many different spells as before? If you count a fire spell that does 15 damage as a different spell to a fire spell that does 20 damage, then you won't be disappointed - the fireball spell might do 15 damage when destruction is at level 25, 20 damage with destruction 30 and so on...

This system (assuming this is how it works, and it's difficult to envisage how there could be no more than 85 spells otherwise) is far more elegant than Oblivion's system, which left us min/maxing for the ultimate spell in each magic school, at which point we only had about 3 or 4 spells that we actually regularly used, and droves of useless low-level spells we'd never use again. This way spells stay worthwhile from beginning to end, and as the scaling is determined by Bethesda we know that each and every one of them (or near enough) will actually be useful.

Look at restoration (could use a few spells less), maybe cure (disease, poison) is one spell that starts with one and upgrades to the other.. Maybe paralysis is removed by dispelling a friendly.
That alone frees up two whole lines for conjuration. Maybe there is Summon ethernal (ghost, wraith, gloom wraith, lich) which frees up one more..
With 3 more summon spells you can get around ten new creatures..


Maybe there is even a spell system where you can cast the same spell on yourself (click) and your companion (hold) thus allowing a few more spells (shield, elemental, restore fatigue).
Then you can have summon armor separate..

I have a few spells I see possibly could be cut fom that list in favor of new spells, not saying you should remove them but think beth might not have some of theese in the game and implimented a few other new spells.

Destruction

I'm not sure what you mean by Circle and AoE, I was under impression that the AoE spell was creating a large circle/sphere around your character. OR is there some info on a new circle or AoE spell?

"Damage" under destruction could be compleatly removed and replaced by the 3 elements

Shock - Magica
Frost - Stamina
Fire - Health

Shock allready been confirmed to damage magica and i think i heard somewhere Frost damages stamina, I know they have said it would slow enemies down in the past but im starting to think wether thats some kind of side effect of their stamina dropping. Fires side effect is putting things on fire, essentially its more damage than the others.

Especially when i think of Damage health, what purpose does it actually have? All other damage effect have way better casting methods aswell as having beneficial side effects. IT could only compete on a lower cost than the other spells, but to me im not sure that justifies using it. Bethesda might very well have removed this, and i think the extra effect to shock might hint they removed Damage Magica aswell.

Drain is another possibile drop aswell, but i do think they have more in favor of keeping them than Damage does. As it could both do more damage and have lower cost then the elemental spells without competing with fire for the strongest damage spell, because drains damage wont stack.

Illusion

Chamealion could have been dropped from Illusion and we only get to keep Invisibility other then that don't think they could have touched something. Wasn't Clearvoyance under the Illusion section in the demo?

Restoration

Don't see something thats there's not much need for here, altho think its possible that beth might not have all those mentioned even if it would be cool if they did.

Conjuraion

Same as restoration but rather some spells might be added to this category, reanimate might not make it but i hope it does.

This makes me think of an intresting Idea, what if possible way Bound armor could work is that Boots, Gloves and Helment are perks? Because I've thought using bound armor would be somewhat a pain having to go through multiple spells for your full armor set. I like this more then the other possibility i thought of being that it summoned more peices as it leveld up. Altho if they are perks it would allow for more customization.

There aren't touch spells anymore.

Ohh i see he have both touch and stream, thought he ment stream when he said touch and i see he dnot have runes inlcuded, unless thats what he ment by circle and then it makes sense. just remove Touch in that case, atleast for the element effects.

Not to mention we have no idea how the perks will effect the spell. Those are what I'm most excited about. :celebration:

MAYBE summoning spells are all considered ONE spell but with different creatures

that would free up like 30 slots or something

This is the epitome of bias. There is much more extensive magic system involving the natural flow of magic, combining the same spell simultaneously creates great power, but you need to sacrifice an equipment slot to balance it. With the inclusion of perks, there can also be specialization, and perks that increase the effect of spells.

So, you're saying they took the god-mode away from being a mage and you're pissed? Tsk-tsk, that's too bad for you.

Seriously. Mages can do ANYTHING in the game, making them a sort of god-mode character. I'm gald they're leveling the playing field. I for one, never touched the magic aspect, and focused on stealth first, combat second. It's more challanging and difficult that way. Makes for a better experience.

It isn't about the god-mode I think. For me it's about the variety. See for me I like to make different classes of magic, in such a way as someone may different classes of warrior.

To have variety and choice on how I want to combine my magical skills and what magic I want to focus on.

@Mank

I really hope damage fatigue and magicka are not out.. I know frost and lightning do that but I'm hoping to see some non violent (kill) options for gameplay.. So damage a mages magicka enough for him to run away or damage fatigue enough for the enemy to collapse..

Although when I think about it, I suppose they could limit those to absorb (restoration).. Meaning the kill option are elemental spells in destruction and less violent are absorb spells in restoration.. It could work..

Then again the spell could be drain with a perk to have it permanently reduced, ergo acting like damage in previous games..

No more opening locks with magic? Anyways, if it feels little, I am sure we'll get magic mods like Midas' in due time.

Im saying that I loved spellmaking.
I have no interest in 'god-mode', I get so annoyed with 'overpowered' this and 'overpowered' that, I have gone the polar opposite and I deny such things even exist in a TES game.
A TES game is not a shooter.
Its about choice. No such thing as overpowered.
Its about the endless possibilities for me. Its about not being trapped in a linear and boxed-in experience, but rather deciding myself how I want to play the game.
That is why Morrowind was such a fantastic game, that is why I still play it.
Conversely, the linear and pre-made spells of a game like dragon age pale in comparison and dont offer even a fraction of a percentage of the vast amount of hours I spent seeing what Morrowind's system would let me do. It cannot, by its very hard-capped nature, for the exact same reason a playmobile fortress isnt as potentially versatile as that same fortress but built out of lego blocks.


Spellmaking offered the greatest tool for influencing the game world I have ever seen.
It being gone means that a core feature of TES has been removed and I am most certainly not happy about it.

Restoration : Resurrection ,equal to staff of worms and shivering isles risen flesh spell

That's not what I am saying at all. I'm not saying that the other races can't use magic, I'm saying that it won't be as prevalent in Skyrim, and that I understand the reasoning behind making magic less in Skyrim than it has been in the previous games.

There will be individual members of the other races in Skyrim that use magic frequently, in fact as you have mentioned with the Altmer and the Breton, magic is very much a core of their society. However, Nords are the prevalent race in Skyrim, and they have a Warrior culture that does not place heavy emphasis on magic use or practice. Therefore, I can see why they'd scale back magic as a whole considering that most magic users in Skyrim will be from other races (even a fair number of Nord Mages), but most of the people you will meet will not be using magic as much as in say... Cyrodiil.

That's the point I was trying to get across. Sorry if I didn't make that clear before.

The spells are actually unique and not just different colored touch/target like in Oblivion/Morrowind.

Nearly all gameplay previews (by users and press) give the new spell-system a big thumbs up and see it as a vast improvement.

I love how different versions of flash = better than anything ever


Want to know what Fire ball, Flamethrower, fire rune and AOE fire do?



FIRE :teehee:

does anyone remember when in the the big interview the person asked if we could combine two different spells and todd just smiled and said nothing

yeah because you can't. search for it,