The 85 spells (if they meant actual spells) : V - Skyrim

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:20 pm

does anyone remember the big interview and the interviewer asked if we could combine two different spells and todd just smiled and said nothing sorry for double post

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:41 pm

yeah because you can't. search for it,

i dont get what your saying

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:23 pm

I was under the impression it was 85 spell effects not 85 spells.

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:37 pm

I love how different versions of flash = better than anything ever

Want to know what Fire ball, Flamethrower, fire rune and AOE fire do?

FIRE :teehee:

Yeah, they all do fire damage, so they all must be functionally the same spell.

I mean, it's not like you have to use these in different situations or anything.
Fire-storm or fire ball? It's fire, so it's the same spell.

LOGIC :teehee:

» Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:01 am

If the system works the way I think it does (spells level up as you level your skill), then all they've done is streamline it. And it makes perfect sense. There's no need to have a spellbook full of superfluous, low level spells when you're facing dragons at level 30-something.

And I'll say it again: the spellmaking system was never used for anything except creating god-mode spells. The most "creative" spells were just versions of "This spell summons an army of zombies, throws fire at everyone, shields me, does my homework and calls my mother to let her know that I'm doing fine."

Two-handed spell-casting, plus spells that level with you, means no need to have a bunch of weaker/stronger versions of the same spell effect.

Also: Dragon Shouts. And did you include runes?

Runes? You mean the runes that are spells, in the spell list on the menu, cast as spells? Such as the Frost Rune spell?

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:37 pm

Runes? You mean the runes that are spells, in the spell list on the menu, cast as spells? Such as the Frost Rune spell?

Runes. Referring to whether or not the OP actually mentioned them in his list. I wasn't sure if "Circle" was meant to refer to runes.

Thanks for playing though. You've been swell. And just to make sure you don't leave empty-handed, here's a fishystick.

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:02 pm

I love how different versions of flash = better than anything ever

Want to know what Fire ball, Flamethrower, fire rune and AOE fire do?

FIRE :teehee:

It's not like each of them require completely a completely different strategy/situation and use :rolleyes: I'll take that over being limited to touch/target but with diff colors.

Also - Like I said, view of actual people who have played the game > views of people who have not played the game. I'm having trouble finding an article or user-review that doesn't praise the new magic system or call it any-way worse than what we've had before. And honestly, I woulnd't expect to given what we've seen in videos. Simply amazing.

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:32 pm

Northern Winds: Feather self, drain target speed, and deal low ice damage over long period of time.

With spellmaking, you could get creative and make wind spells if you wanted. Northern Winds was like summoning an icey wind that slowed the enemy while increasing your own speed, and could rp that the ice damage hurt everyone but since I was a Nord at the time the cold didn't hurt me.

None of this Godspell nonsense. That was only one possibility. You could also get creative. I'm hoping you can enchant paper to make scrolls, or at least let us make staves with multiple effects. The cool effects and customiztion of spellmaking could have worked hand in hand with some tweaking - but at the very least I hope we can make scrolls and staves.

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:16 pm

Northern Winds: Feather self, drain target speed, and deal low ice damage over long period of time.

With spellmaking, you could get creative and make wind spells if you wanted. Northern Winds was like summoning an icey wind that slowed the enemy while increasing your own speed, and could rp that the ice damage hurt everyone but since I was a Nord at the time the cold didn't hurt me.

None of this Godspell nonsense. That was only one possibility. You could also get creative. I'm hoping you can enchant paper to make scrolls, or at least let us make staves with multiple effects. The cool effects and customiztion of spellmaking could have worked hand in hand with some tweaking - but at the very least I hope we can make scrolls and staves.

Hold on. You made wind? Like a storm?

Now where have I seen someone summoning a storm recently?

Hang on... I'll get it... don't tell me... any second now I'll remember where I saw someone summon a storm from the top of a tower in the E3 demo footage...

Edit: Also, if you could cast spells that made people perform music from Godspell, that would be more creative. Kudos to you.

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:14 pm

We heard there is around 85 unique spell effects in Skyrim so I did a bit of research and I think I've got it..

Destruction 12:
- Fire spells 1
- Frost spells 1
- Shock spells 1
- (target, touch, circle, stream, aoe)= 1 elemental damage effect so 3 total from the above shock frost and fire
- Damage (health, magic, stamina) = 3
- Drain (health, magic, stamina) = 3
- Drain skill (highest skill) = 1
- Weakness (elemental, weapon) = 2

Illusion 12:
- calm, frenzy, rally, demoralize = 4
- command creature, humanoid = 2
- invisibility, chameleon = 2
- light, night eye, silence, charm = 4

Alteration 10:
- feather, burden, paralysis = 3
- elemental shield, shield = 2x2 (for others) = 2 still think it is just the effect not the application
- water walk, breathe = 2
- telekinesis, detect, open = 3
-clairvoyance?=1

Restoration 8:
- absorb=1
- fortify=1
- restore=1
- dispel? its restoration?= 1
- cure= 1
- turn (undead, circle) = 2
- resist something = 1

Conjuration 4
- bound bow, dagger, axe, mace, sword = 1 summoning a weapon
- bound armor (upgradable), shield = 1 summoning armor(tempted to say zero and chalk both weapons and armor up to
- soul trap, reanimate = 2

Summon spells are probably leveled and there are about 7 of them
- skeleton as one spell (normal, guardian, hero, champion)
- zombie (normal, headless, dread)
- ghost (normal, new, lich)
- wraith (faded, normal, gloom)

As for deadra probably
- atronach (fire, frost, storm)
- creatures (clanfear, daedroth, spider)
- daedra (scamp, dremora, xivial) all = 1 summoning a creature it would be stupid for them to not allow us to summon only one type of creature. What if I was a master and wanted to summon a scamp?

Total Not 85 I got 46

So what do you think??

Fixed...but I am being very optimistic and hoping for new spells. Lol :celebration: or more likely :cryvaultboy:

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:59 pm

Yeah, they all do fire damage, so they all must be functionally the same spell.

I mean, it's not like you have to use these in different situations or anything.
Fire-storm or fire ball? It's fire, so it's the same spell.

LOGIC :teehee:

Wonders why he doesn't say the same about spell making

its a mystery.

Like I said because its pretty, you apply the reasoning used for spell making to whats currently in skyrim but don't for spell making? super mega awesome derp.

» Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:24 am

My issue is less about variety and more about how they're obtained. The very idea of a magic "store" is quite ridiculous. It'd be more satisfying to find spells in dusty tomes in the ancient libraries of old ruins and such. The idea of a magical walmart selling staves and spells and such makes magic feel less magical.

Special on scrolls of frenzy, aisle 4.

» Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:09 am

im guessing they mean 85 total, including all the similar spells like fire ball and flame thrower
kinda disappointing me to learn that, since they advertized it like one fire spell could be used multiple ways instead of them being seperate spells all counting towards the total 85
but thats beth for ya :sadvaultboy:

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:56 pm

My issue is less about variety and more about how they're obtained. The very idea of a magic "store" is quite ridiculous. It'd be more satisfying to find spells in dusty tomes in the ancient libraries of old ruins and such. The idea of a magical walmart selling staves and spells and such makes magic feel less magical.

Special on scrolls of frenzy, aisle 4.

There are Tombs you're in luck

» Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:30 am

Hold on. You made wind? Like a storm?

Now where have I seen someone summoning a storm recently?

Hang on... I'll get it... don't tell me... any second now I'll remember where I saw someone summon a storm from the top of a tower in the E3 demo footage...

Edit: Also, if you could cast spells that made people perform music from Godspell, that would be more creative. Kudos to you.

Scarcasm truely is the lowest form of wit.

I'll entertain it though, to humor you so you don't feel bad. That was a thunder storm. As in rain and lightning. My spell is a cold wind. It invovles neither rain or snow or thunderous lights of any kind. Not sure you noticed, so I felt like telling you.

I'll give another example. You know, so you can try to be funny again.

Blood for the Fallen: Drain health x amount, summon skeletal warrior. Is giving blood actually needed to summon things? No, but it's an rpg for a reason. You can pretend it does. Still to hard? Well, maybe spellcreation could have been recreated with more depth to allow negatives to allow bigger possatives.

Leech Seed: Paralysis for x amount of time, drain health for x amount of time, fortify health. It was like the grass suddenly sprung up and ensnaired the enemy, draining their health away, and then giving it to me..

Flicker: Paralysis on target for x amount of time, invisiblity on target for x amount of time. It was like enemies flickered in and out of reality.

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:46 pm

Lets just say our LONG TERM options have been removed while...all the shorterm flash and flare that will get boring in less than a year. I mean really a game that has a potential play life of several years does not need static seen it once seen it forever spells, I HOPE that they Sneak Spell making in. SOMEWHERE.

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:11 pm

Lets just say our LONG TERM options have been removed while...all the shorterm flash and flare that will get boring in less than a year. I mean really a game that has a potential play life of several years does not need static seen it once seen it forever spells, I HOPE that they Sneak Spell making in. SOMEWHERE.

I think our best bet is the ability to either make staves or scrolls. With enchanting as a skill...it's possible. Then again, I can't really predict what Beth will exactly do anymore. So who knows. <_<

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:41 pm

Let's be honest, 99% of the people replying here only ever used 2-3 different spells come endgame anyway.

That would only apply to people who never played a mage, I don't think thats 99%.

... with only 8 being useable at once. Guild Wars 2 will have similar.

As for Guild Wars, this is for tactical reasons and it is a very good system. But this does not apply to TES.
I agree with the rest.

That's not what I am saying at all. I'm not saying that the other races can't use magic, I'm saying that it won't be as prevalent in Skyrim, and that I understand the reasoning behind making magic less in Skyrim than it has been in the previous games.

There will be individual members of the other races in Skyrim that use magic frequently, in fact as you have mentioned with the Altmer and the Breton, magic is very much a core of their society. However, Nords are the prevalent race in Skyrim, and they have a Warrior culture that does not place heavy emphasis on magic use or practice. Therefore, I can see why they'd scale back magic as a whole considering that most magic users in Skyrim will be from other races (even a fair number of Nord Mages), but most of the people you will meet will not be using magic as much as in say... Cyrodiil.

That's the point I was trying to get across. Sorry if I didn't make that clear before.

The point was clear, but I really hope that wasn't their actual reasoning. You can play races from the entire continent and it makes no sense to limit the magic system just because of the game's current geographical and cultural situation. I don't think they will remove blocking in TES ?: High Rock. Just because most NPCs are unmagic Nords ... no, just makes no sense.

Also, because some people bring this up from time to time, Dragon Shouts are not magic and irrelevant to this discussion.

» Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:44 am

Also, because some people bring this up from time to time, Dragon Shouts are not magic and irrelevant to this discussion.

Dragon shouts are magic. There isn't anything else they could be. You use the dragon language and by magic something happends. It's not the "normal" way of magic but the dragons magic so i can get where you're comming from. However nothing stops you from roleplaying it's regular magic.

About 85 spells or 85 spell effects, I'm not too worried. If theres 150 spells and 70 of those serves practicly no purpose it's not very different from simply having 80 spells. Especially since Spell Making is out I don't care too much about getting as many spell effects as possible. Things I do hope for however ,is that there will be multiple summoning spells, the idea of having say an atronach spell leveling to summon first a fire then ice then storm doesnt appeal to me. If I'm playing a Ice Mage and want to use Ice atornach and Frost spells it would be kind of bad if i suddently started to summon a storm one. I wouldnt mind there being 1 Skeleton spell or so on as it would gradually get armor or something like that, but if the skeleton suddently got replaced by a zombie i wouldnt be that okey with it anymore.

I also hope they haven't neglected "other" spells, healing and strenghtening your companions with magic is something i'd love them to have. I hope Perks adress this on a few spells somehow or that they are 2 sepperate spells.

What im more exited about is how they handle the perk system for spells, are they going to have more specific customization through perks or simply have "bonus to healing" ones?

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:02 pm

From what I have read and speculated that sounds about right. Wondering now what the perks are. I'll link if I can but I know I read that now all spells will level with you as you level instead of having to have a cluttered spell page with 30 of the same spell but with different damages.

» Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:00 pm

Dragon shouts are magic. There isn't anything else they could be. You use the dragon language and by magic something happends. It's not the "normal" way of magic but the dragons magic so i can get where you're comming from. However nothing stops you from roleplaying it's regular magic.

Its magic compared to our world, but within the TES universe, it is not magic, as no other magician can learn it, whereas the player even as a warrior or thief can learn the shouts (which don't seem to consume mana, btw). This is an issue of balancing between the classes, and not related to the magic system. Nothings stops me from RPing that dragons are made of mustard and cheese, but that's not how the game works.

» Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:10 am

Its magic compared to our world, but within the TES universe, it is not magic, as no other magician can learn it, whereas the player even as a warrior or thief can learn the shouts (which don't seem to consume mana, btw). This is an issue of balancing between the classes, and not related to the magic system. Nothings stops me from RPing that dragons are made of mustard and cheese, but that's not how the game works.

It's magic, old, ancient and diffferent magic. Nords warriors used it. In the TES Lore, it's still magic.