That blue text did actually come from a http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-annotated-anuad. It's key to remember here there are many takes and interpretations of the creation myth, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of it all.

But to discuss your question I remember reading something about The Tsaesci eating the Men of Akavir on one of the various lore sites.

The meaning of term "eaten" as given from what is known of the land of Akavir is not clear. Although description of the Tsaesci might suggest literal meaning, it could be a metaphor for being subdued. In Mysterious Akavir by anonymous writer, the Tsaesci are told to have: "tried to eat all the Dragons. They managed to enslave the Red Dragons, but the black ones had fled to (then) Po Tun."

I take it as the Elnohfey that landed on Akavir, the proto-race of men, were eaten or subdued by a beast race of Tsaesci and no longer exist or somehow became apart of their race/civilization. :wacko:

BUT if my theory is true they don't play a big role, or any role at all, so it wouldn't matter.

Found this to be interesting... :lightbulb:



It not only gives us the backstory to the the Nord Wulfharth who would go on to become the Shezzarine, avatar of Shor, known as Ysmir

BUT

It also shows how my theory could be supported through Nordic myth as the "Their defeat was merely delay" line could indicate Akatosh's defeat here by Shor (Nords name for Lorkhan), in his attempt to kill off mankind, was only a delay til a later time.

It supports my Lorkhan vs Akatosh or to the Nords Shor vs Alduin theory.

Thoughts?

I'm also going to post this in here because I believe it adds more connections and links to my story...


That logo could have just as much to do with the Cyrodiil Empire and in turn with Akatosh as it does with the Akavir races you know. (Making it possible to be hinting either way or not being at hint at all.)

That logo has been apart of other TES games and because of the Empire. The Pocket Guide to The Empire booklet that I got with my Collector's Edition of Oblivion has that logo on the front.

It's true the Empire under Reman Cyrodiil, known as the Culture god-hero of the Second Empire , founder of the Reman Dynasty adopted this logo, among other Akaviri traditions, from the Tsaesci after Reman defeated the Akaviri (tsaesci) invasion of Tamriel at the battle of Pale Pass in 1E 2703.

Until that point, Tamriel had been divided into several small kingdoms, but once Reman had brought the armies of Colovia and the Nibenay Valley together to defeat the invasion, he was able to unite all Tamriel's human inhabitants in the face of possible aggression from the Aldmer under the The Reman Dynasty.

Although the Battle of Pale Pass established Reman as the leading power in Tamriel, many parts of the continent refused to acknowledge his rule. Valenwood was not subdued until 1E 2714 during the rule of his successor, Brazollus Dor. In 1E 2811, Cyrodilic forces defeated the last organized army of Argonians at the Battle of Argonia, and the following year saw Argonia admitted to the empire as a province under the name "Black Marsh". The rest of the province was conquered piecemeal, with the whole area passing under Imperial control in 1E 2837.

The last war of conquest began in around 1E 2840 when Reman II began an attempt to bring Morrowind, the only province outside Imperial control, into the empire. Progress was slow, and the three living gods of Morrowind's Tribunal, Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil proved to be extremely capable leaders. By 1E 2920, both sides were approaching exhaustion and after the Empire captured the fortress of Ald Marak, a truce was agreed to bring an end to the war.

In the aftermath of the battle, both Reman III and his heir, Prince Juilek, were assassinated by the Morag Tong, bringing an end to the Reman Dynasty and instigating the period of the Second Empire known as the Akaviri Potentate.

Under the Remans, the emperor's chief advisor was called the Potentate. In the battle of Pale Pass, Reman I decisively defeated the Akaviri (tsaesci) invasion but other events forced him to offer the defeated army amnesty in return for their service in his own army.

Reman Cyrodiil accepted the fealty of the invaders and accepted their military and strategic input for the good of the newly formed Second Empire. He instituted the modern coronation rites, such as the Dragonfires among other Akaviri influence in other spheres of life, and over time the position of Potentate was usually filled by one of the snake people. (tsaesci)

In the year 1E 2920, the Potentate Versidue-Shaie plotted to overthrow the empire. He contrived the assassination first of Crown Prince Juilek and then the emperor himself by the Morag Tong. On 22 Evening Star 2920, Versidue-Shaie declared that he was taking over the leadership of the empire but retaining his title of Potentate. In the same speech, he declared the end of the First Era and the start of the Second.

In order to suppress armies remaining loyal to the Remans, as well as the armies belonging to individual kingdoms seeking greater autonomy, Versidue-Shaie was forced to engage in a relentless series of campaigns that, by the year 2E 283, finally resulted in victory for his forces. The cost of the campaigns was immense, resulting in the impoverishment of both the empire and its constituent kingdoms and in an effort to maintain order without the expense of a standing army, in 2E 321 Versidue-Shaie agreed to a proposal from his kinsman Dinieras-Ves that established what was to become known as the Fighters Guild.

In 2E 324, Versidue-Shaie was assassinated by the nascent Morag Tong and succeeded by his son, Savirien-Chorak.

The last Potentate, Savirien-Chorak, was assassinated along with all his heirs on one night in Sun's Dawn 2E 430, bringing a final end to the Second Empire and signaling the start of the Interregnum.

With the great Empire finally destroyed, The Akavir once again invaded Tamriel, barely rebuffed after attacking Morrowind in 2E 572.

From one end of the continent to the other, war and rebellion struck at the heart of every great tradition of the land. The collapse of any central authority led to five centuries of bickering between small kingdoms and petty states.

And in the days of interregnum, the Chim-el Adabal (Amulet of Kings?) was lost again amid the petty wars of gone-heathen kings. West and east knew no union then and all the lands outside of them saw Cyrodiil as a nest of snakemen and snakes. And for four more hundreds of years did the seat of Reman stay sundered, with only the machinations of a group of loyal knights keeping all its borders from throwing wide.

These loyal knights did go by no name then, but were known by their eastern swords and painted eyes, (The Blades?) and it was whispered that they were descended from the bodyguard of old Reman. One of their number, called the Chevalier Renald, discovered the prowess of Cuhlecain and then supported him towards the throne.



In 2E 852 the king of the Colovian Estates, Cuhlecain, took the title "Emperor" just before he and his general, Talos, defeated the last of their enemies at the Battle of Sancre Tor.

(http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150358-skyrim-trailer-breakdown/page__view__findpost__p__16838257.)

Basically Cuhlecain and his general Talos march on the East, the battlemages surrender before their armies, and they take the Citadel. But before Cuhlecain could be crowned, Talos secretly murders him and his loyalist contingent with the help of a High Rock nightblade. The Imperial Palace was burned to the ground in the action (probably to destroy evidence) and Talos slit his own throat to take the suspicion off him.

Though he lived, his Voice failed him. The assassination was blamed on the enemies of Cuhlecain, which, for political reasons, are still the Western Reach.

To prevent Cyrodiil from falling apart again, Zurin Arctus, the Grand Battlemage, then crowns Talos as Tiber Septim, new Emperor of All Cyrodiil.

With the Third Empire under Tiber Septim being established in 2E 854, it signaled the end of the Interregnum, although it would take until 2E 896 before all Tamriel was brought under his rule. (Go back and read red link now maybe)





Basically I just wanted to show that the logo could have just as much to do with the dragonborn empire as it does to the Akaviri. With the Septim Empire gone and the fallout of the pact between Akatosh and Alessia(Mankind) over the amulet of kings it could just as well support a Alduin attack as a Akaviri Invasion.

* Who is Stormcrown?
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-cyrodiil#5



Basically a alternate version, a Nordic version of who the mortal man known as Talos was and how he became to be. Possibly shedding more light onto (http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150358-skyrim-trailer-breakdown/page__view__findpost__p__16838257.)

And as Luagar2 pointed out...

Okay http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-cyrodiil states




If 'Stormcrown' in the language of the ancient Ehlnofey and through my theory the Ehlnofey are one generation lower then Dragons, Could that be the start of the title Dragonborn?




So there seems to me to be a reincarnation of some sorts going on here? After he was visited by Shor's avatar Ysmir.

Kudos on the work you have done on your lates theory, Cipher, it really is something! I would love a plot laid out in those lines.

But how does the idea of a civil war (seemingly confined to Skyrim) fit with that theory?

Good question I actually had compiled some stuff about that but thought it didn't directly relate so I didn't post it.

When the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood.

The Sons of Skyrim to me indicates the http://oblivion.wikia.com/wiki/Nedic people who believe that they were created in Skyrim by Kyne when the sky breathed onto the peak of the mountain known as Throat of the World. where http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:High_Hrothgar stands.

The spiritual relationship between the Nords and breath, which is associated with the Sky Goddess Kyne, is also important. As Children of the Sky puts it:


Hence the Song of Return refers not only to Ysgramor's return to Tamriel after the destruction of Saarthal, but to the Nords' return to what they believe was their original homeland.

Atmora was the original home of the Nedic people before they migrated south to Skyrim.

The Nedic people are the ancestors of three of the major modern races that exist in Tamriel. http://oblivion.wikia.com/wiki/Nedic.



What I believe the first line of the lyrics to be "Oh my king, Dovahkiin, of a single Skyrim" would actually make sense.

The history of Skyrim shows that it was only united for brief periods.



The concept of Civil Wars between Skyrim factions AKA Holds is not a new thing either…



In modern day Skyrim we’re told that the cities of Solitude and Winter Hold hold a bitter rivalry between one another and the lyrics could indicate a civil war between both regions and the Dovahkiin uniting them against a common threat for a “Single Skyrim”







Another Take on this...

The "When the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood." could also mean nothing about Civil War. Though this is unlikely since they show a conflict on the rune when they speak that line.

Could it just be a indicator of Time?

"Til the time after Oblivion opened"

The word "Til" to me indicates this line is just a marker in time. Til meaning "Until" onto the next line, is that too a continuation of the first part, just marking time?

"When the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood"

Tiber Septim was believed to be a Atmoran through the Nords myth http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-cyrodiil and spent time in Skyrim early on. It's not that far of a stretch to consider him the Son(s) of Skyrim? Can we then safely say that this narrator is referring to the Septim line, having spilled the last of their blood with the death of Martin? Which directly relates to my Amulet of Kings pact being over and Alduin/Dragons being released theory.

It's difficult for me too see where the lore ends and Cipher 8's speculation begins.

I found out a little bit more on this supposed Shezzarine known as Harrald Hairy Breeks...





EDIT: Added info... Eventually, Men returned to Tamriel. The Nords were the first, colonizing the northern coast of Tamriel before recorded history, led by the legendary Ysgramor. The thirteenth of his line, King Harrald, was the first to appear in written history. And so the Mythic Era ended.


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-timeline-series says that a "immortal hero, warrior, sorceror, and king" by many names "wandered Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again."

The Shezzarine of Lorkhan sent to Alessia is named. Pelinal Whitestrake.
The Shezzarine of Lorkhan sent to Tiber Septim is named. Ysmir.
And finally...
The Shezzarine of Lorkhan known as Harrald Hairy Breeks is named...





Making him the same Shezzarine, by many names, the Avatar of Lorkhan or Shor as the Nords know him.


That leaves the "sorcerer" and the last known name "Hans the Fox" left... And I think I got them figured out finally :hubbahubba:

The Sorcerer



That Shezzarine was Lorkhan taking Zurin Arctus, the Grand Battlemage, as a avatar so he could destroy the Mantella (Lorkhan's Heart).

Now who is Hans the Fox?

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-arcturian-heresy directly states...

Tiber Septim lived until he was 108, the richest man in history. Tiber was succeeded by his grandson, Pelagius I. Pelagius was just not of the same caliber. In truth, he's was a little nervous with all these provinces. Then an advisor showed up.
“I was friends with your grandfather,” the Underking says, “He sent me to help you run the Empire."

That is the Shezzarine of Lorkhan sent to Pelagius. Known as Hans the Fox. (or so i think)


Further linking the theory of the Dovahkiin being a Shor Shezzarine.

Thoughts?

Read what you wrote on the lore forums, and I'd say you made the best argument of what the things are to come, and you make it seem likely that the PC will be the next incarnate of Shor, acting as the strong arm of the dragonborn, like in ages past.

Have an icecream :icecream:

As for the sons of Skyrims spilling their own blood bit, I took that as civil war. The nords are a people of conflict. If they're not fighting some other lands, they're fighting themselves.

So anyone else think the Dovahkiin, the King of a united Skyrim, is infact a avatar of Shor AKA Lorkhan?

I mean King Harrald the Atmora-born first known ruler of the Nords was.
and
And so was King http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Wulfharth a Atmora-born ruler of ancient Skyrim.

EDIT:I forgot to mention Tiber Septim was a Atmora Born Ruler according to the Nords. - http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-cyrodiil

Spoiler

He was born in Atmora as Talos, 'Stormcrown' in the language of the ancient Ehlnofey, and it was from that shore he sailed. He spent his youth in Skyrim among the Nords.

It's not that far of a stretch to think a third King of Skyrim, the Dovahkiin would be a Shezzarine, or avatar, for Shor.

And they were both all three from Atmora. If that means anything. Possibly where the Dragons come from? Dragonborn meaning Born of Atmora where the Dragons are... ?




In the first of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Five_Songs_of_King_Wulfharth is shows the link that King Wulfharth has to Shor

The first song of King Wulfharth is ancient, circa 1E500. After the defeat of the Alessian army at Glenumbria Moors, where King Hoag Merkiller was slain, Wulfharth of Atmora was elected by the Pact of Chieftains. His thu'um was so powerful that he could not verbally swear into the office, and scribes were used to draw up his oaths. Immediately thereafter the scribes wrote down the first new law of his reign: a fiery reinstatement of the traditional Nordic pantheon. The Edicts were outlawed, their priests put to the stake, and their halls set ablaze. The shadow of King Borgas had ended for a span. For his zealotry, King Wulfharth was called Shor's Tongue, and Ysmir, Dragon of the North.

So the reinstatement of traditional Nordic pantheon, which means they stopped worshipping the Alessian Akatosh (Lorkhans foe), made Lorkhan happy. Wulfharth went on to become known as Shor's Tongue and Ysmir, Dragon of the North.

Eventually dieing at the Battle of Red Mountain,( _{The Battle of Red Mountain is also known as the Lorkhan War.} ) King http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Wulfharth was too.

Yeah, Civil war between the different Holds or regions of Skyrim. That's what I think it means too but i just thought I'de share that other thing, it's a different yet interesting take on that line.

Thanks for the icecream :yuck:

I don't really have the knowledge to understand, really any of what you said here, but if it turns out to be accurate as we get more game information than I am going to be extremely excited for the kind of lore, culture, and general immersion we will see in the next game.

For hope. :foodndrink:

I dunno. I still think the Dovahkiin won't be the Shezarrine, but something of a role like Alessia, Reman, and Tiber. The PC, I feel, will be the Shezzarine.

I must say, I'll be thoroughly annoyed if the PC isn't the Dovahkiin. We've already had our turn as sidekick, it's time to let us back in the spotlight - that's half the point of gaming.

Finally. FINALLY someone mentioned Anu and Padomay. A Children's Anuad was my favorite book from Oblivion. But... I do not think Lorkhan or Akatosh is either one, because they (A and P) were the simplest forms of everything. As in, you could not break it down any further than that. The gods came from them... Its like binary, its the source of a computer. (Don't point out that binary can be broken up into electric signals, it was the best anology I could think of at the time )

Also its quite interesting to point out, just like the UESP site states, in real-world mythology, Anu was the supreme god of the Sumerian Pantheon.

Read the entire theory, and being relatively ignorant of TES lore it was a bit of a crash course, and confusing at times - particularly the lack of clarity when naming characters (Tiber Septim seems to have about ten names, and there seem to be at least two of him present at the same time in some of the scenes described(!), but I'm probably misunderstanding some of it though no fault of yours). If nothing else, you've inspired me to frequent the Elder Scrolls Lore forum (and the Imperial Library site, which seems to be the most exhaustive source) to hopefully get up to speed.

And despite being a bit unclear on who's who among the Aedra -- and not understanding the timeline of events surrounding Tiber Septim -- I dare say your theory makes a lot of sense. I'd always viewed Akatosh as I suppose the men of Cyrodiil do, not knowing of his "devourer" aspect or he and his peers' potential hostility towards Nirn. It would make for an intoxicating background to Skyrim's gameworld, especially if -- and again, I'm not clear on all this, so please correct me as needed -- different individual dragons/Aedra have their own motives and agendas in the conflict, that would place them as enemies, allies, or neither.

I think that is a good thing.


For what it is worth, I agree. Now what I want to know is what will happen if Alduin doesn't get to do his thing.

I'm glad to see this theory is finally attracting the attention it deserves.

As for the lyrics... here's me thinking out loud.

The bolded colored text I'm quite sure about.

Oh my King, Dovahkiin, of a single Skyrim!
For our Land, For a Home, of thee High Hrothgar's Blood,
??????????? , ??????????????
Dovahkiin, Our King, For Lorkhan we'll ???? YA!


WORD FOR WORD BREAKDOWN




The Dovahkiin will come and unite the warring factions or Holds of Skyrim. Becoming King of Skyrim. So there's no Moot selection, likely will use Thu'um to prove he's the rightful leader.



For their land of Skyrim,



For a Home to live at, though the "a" sorta sound the "uh" so it could be "our" instead of "a" making it "For our Home." They believe Skyrim was their original Homeland.



Nords believe they were created in Skyrim by Kyne when the sky breathed onto the peak of the mountain known as Throat of the World, where High Hrothgar stands.


That third line being the one I have know clue about:

I'll list all the notes I wrote down about what I thought I heard in a spoiler tag but I don't think any are right.


Let me know what you all think but I'm pretty sure I hear the bolded red text.

To be honest, I think all of the Elder Scrolls games, and all that we know are meaningless in comparison to what it could possibly be leading to, what I HOPE its leading to. The revelation that the Nu-Mantia Intercept is true. That would be the most amazing storyline ever. And Im glancing through the Nu-Mantia letters now. If im understanding correctly, its explaining the reason the Barrier is weakening, and predicts the return of the Ayleids. It, in theory, explains what the "towers" of Tamriel were made for; re-reaching the divine. The Children's Anuad may have been my favorite book from the games, but this blows that away. i can not nearly summarize the entirety of the letters, you'll have to look for yourself on the Imperial Library.

Nice work, Cipher.

Found something else that supports my guess that I still believe Anu is Lorkhan and Padomay is Akatosh.

More info about that whole story where the Nords cursed by Orkey with him using Alduin and Shor showing up pleaded by Wulfharth to save mankind.

There is a connection!

Way back in Atmora!





Eventually, Men returned to Tamriel. The Nords were the first, colonizing the northern coast of Tamriel before recorded history, led by the legendary Ysgramor. An ancient Nordic king who was first to land in Skyrim at Hsaarik Head, fleeing civil war in Atmora. After the elves killed all but him and his two sons, he fled back to Atmora, later to return with the legendary Five Hundred Companions and drive the Elves (Falmer) from Skyrim.

The thirteenth of his line, King Harald, was the first to appear in written history. And so the Mythic Era ended.


I really think Shor keeps taking Avatar form time and time again to rule Mankind. First with King Harrald Hairy Breeks (used Thu'um), then with King Wulfharth (used thu'um), visited with Tiber Septim at the battle of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150358-skyrim-trailer-breakdown/page__view__findpost__p__16838257 and taught him Thu'um, and coming up... With King Dovahkiin.

Atmoran myths depict him as a bloodthirsty warrior king who leads the Nords to victory over their Aldmeri oppressors time and again.

- http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Wulfharth

Maybe Wulfharth is Tiber Septim!

And then Tiber Septim may actually be the avatar of Shor.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Wulfharth

Go there and read that article... I don't want to copy and paste it all but it's really interesting, has more info on Wulfharth.

And there's one line that I can't get out of my head abot 3/4th's the way down...



You'll have to read the paragraphs leading up to that for it to make sense. So I'll leave you to it.

Is MK-{OmegaX} the actual MK or just someone with a similar name?

And Cipher are you sure you are not one of the developers disguised and giving away secrets?
I am still not really decided on your theory but i will keep it in mind and wait for official information.


So why would Alduin-Akatosh want to get rid of the mer as well? Or would destroying the whole of creation bring back his people, mer, into divinity with him? Or possibly reabsorbing what he originally gave into the world to regain his old powers? If true the altmer are going to be in for a surprise

My head hurts.

Good theory though. :goodjob:

EDIT: How the hell would the developers explain this in-game? Anyone who isn't a hardcoe TES fan will be lost faster than you can say "Lohrkan."