uhm... it's "raw ability" either way.

Sorry, but flicking your wrist to put the X-Hairs over a target is not an amazing feat or anything

if anything, X-Hairs is EASIER cause of how fast you can do it.

AIMING down the sights SLOWS DOWN your aim speed, AND your movement speed.... for what? a 25-50% zoom???

please, that's [censored].

hip-fire would be superior in every way.... you can beat the "zoom" by getting a 20% bigger monitor :huh:

I think it takes skill to do both, but in the end you are putting a dot on a target, the one who does it fastest and with the most accuracy wins, the fact is that aiming gives better accuracy while hip firing is faster. Now the only question is what situation are you in, because both are in the game and both have their place.

Exactly.

So long as it works that way, I'm happy.

So if I hip fire while standing still, is that my raw skill or is the game assisting me? Because last I checked, the game doesn't force you to run, or even move for that matter, if you aren't aiming down the sights.

As for aiming down the sights slowing your movement, I see that more as a balancing mechanic than assisted aiming. Because if you could still move and turn as fast as normal WHILE having increased accuracy in games that feature iron sights, there'd be little reason to not just spend the entire game looking down your sights, whether you're standing still shooting or simply running out of your spawn. That is, unless you don't like the sights taking up a portion of your screen, which is a complaint I've heard from people opposed to sighting (Not necessarily on these boards, just from the entire issue across games).

As for the zoom... well, maybe it's there to show you're character is "focusing" or to simulate the weapon being closer to your eyes. If we lost the ADS zoom, I wouldn't be too saddened.

EDIT:



As long as they BOTH have their place as you say, I'll be satisfied. Because remember, I'm not saying hip firing should be pointless, but that ADS should actually have a point.

as the dev team has said in there dev diaries, quoting the dwan of smart "its not about moving or shooting, its about moving and shooting" which makes hipfire shooting the main thing to do and as people have said they threw down the sights cuz people more or less demand it nowadays. myself i like it's going to be cuz it gives u the fast action as in quake for instence.

It's still raw skill. If 2 players fire at the same target, one with no ironsight and one ADS, and they both hit it, the ADS player still has a zoomed view, thus making it easier to see/hit the target.


As good as you make it sound, it wouldn't work that way, since it's harder to hit a zoomed in target at higher speeds. This is why many players have separate sensitivity settings for sniping and regular shooting.


I hate this as well. Instead of having ADS, why don't they just incorporate the benefits into crouching (which a lot of games do in addition to ADS)
Crouching increases accuracy, slows movement instead of turning speed, and it doesn't zoom or take up any screen space. Basically, it's the exact same thing as hip firing, with increased accuracy and less mobility, so it's an even trade.

I like the idea of crouching resulting in a higher acc. Some goes for proning, but I'm not sure if this in the game.

There is no prone in Brink.

And as I have already said, the maps look designed to promote CQC action which also lends to a lot of moving and shooting from the hip as well.

That doesn't change the fact that aiming should, by logic, confer SOME sort of benefit, and a tiny zoom isn't enough to give up field of view AND movement speed AND aiming speed.

I think a MINOR accuracy boost that would make a significant impact at ranges 20m+ (which is farther then 90% of any firefights will be), almost no effect at engagements within 20ft, and only a difference of 1-2 bullets hitting between those 2 ranges, is more then appropriate.

I expect Hip Fire to be the main stay... but you still see people STOPPING to AIM AND SHOOT in ALL of their videos.....

It's a shame. But from what I've seen, the sliding on the ground is comparable to being prone, with the difference that you keep your momentum. Right?



It's still easier to aim at 20 pixels than at 10.

It's simple:
ironsights make aiming easier, but don't increase gun accuracy while you also move slower.
Hipfire makes aiming more difficult (you're moving faster), you don't lose actual gun accuracy, but you have additional dodging speed.

Besides, a lot of the people here tend to forget that there are body types which should be taken into account when you're talking about moving while shooting and using ironsights...

That and you can only slide UNDER obstacles... not just whenever you want (though maybe you can) and either way, you can't stay down, you get back up after completing the slide.

I'm 100% for removal of prone.

From this statement, it just appears you are upset because you personally use ironsights a lot, so a game that "cramps your style" in this department, makes you angry. If ADS in a game, didn't have the significant benefit over hip firing players are used to, and instead became a much more situational tactic, kinda like how hip-firing is in games today, the rational, reasonable thing to do, is to not use sights as much.

Honestly, from the things you post, it just sounds like you use sights a lot, but in Brink, it may actually be detrimental to overuse them, resulting in a scenario that could possibly leave you and your playstyle at a disadvantage more than you would like over other players, instead of sights putting you at an advantage, so you rage and argue.

Yea, buh the fact that you're getting up is beneficial in my eyes. You keep your momentum and you're still able to lower your stance.

I do use sights a lot... but then, in BFBC2, the game I play most, 90% of my engagements are at targets past 20m...

I use it when it makes sense, and I accept, and even welcome, new game play that encourages running and jumping and flanking more, and obviously hip-fire must be an acceptable means of firing while you are doing all these things.

I KNOW THAT HIP-FIRING WILL BE THE MAIN-STAY

I've already said that in the post you half quoted even, BUT When the situation calls for Aiming to be the intuitively better action, I expect it to be, and not be a useless, meaningless, addition.


Well, yah... again, agreed

I'm glad laying down in prone is out cause that encourages camping and has little benefit IMO.

I do hope you can slide on demand though... could be useful for dodging fire

This topic is awesome. I'm glad the devs are committed to the Game, and making it fun. Did you guys ever play Day of Defeat, now that was some awesome ironsight action. IMHO it didn't really slow down the action of the game. Matches were really fast paced. Though the squat and shoot was really how you became accurate; you just got talented at doing it really really fast. Squat shoot... run... hip Fire... throw grenade back... run... shoot... die! Another awesome game to try is insurgency, this is hardcoe ironsight action. it is free on steam if you own HL2. they do something really interesting. No crosshairs... none; and you couldn't even use the magic marker dot on your monitor because in hip fire mode you gun floats around. you must experience this type of shooter for your self.

Hip fire games too are fun. TF2 quite nearly is the most fun you can have online.

its all about the experience.

It would be useful, but it wouldn't be practical - seeing someone standing still and then suddenly break into a slide.

Yea but doing it on a random place while moving would be great.

I wouldn't expect you to do it while standing... unless it was more like a dive roll in a direction.

I meant more for while running across the open, using slide to lower your profile below a low wall or something for a couple seconds.

I guess you can slide into cover, so maybe it will just be clever use of that.

You said "on demand."

As I said, I'd have no issues losing the zoom ADS provides if needed.


Sniping is a bit different than shooting while sighted. When you're sniping, you're typically attempting to line up that one head shot, which is a much smaller target than a torso, not to mention you're also being as precise as possible, because if you miss that first shot, chances are there won't be a second. Also, a sniper scope typically provides 8-12x zoom, while ADS typically provides 1.2-1.5x, so I find it difficult to compare the two.

I think that wouldn't work because you'd locked into a crouching stance if you want the effects of ADS, instead of the options of both standing and crouching. And having both of those options while behind cover is kind of a big deal.

It's the same concept - sniping just takes it to a higher level.


crouching works as the equivalent to ADS in games that do not have ironsights. Being behind cover seems to be irrelevant, since you can fire from behind cover crouched as well - Brink also has leaning around corners.

In the words of Richard Ham:

To Richard Ham: in Day of Defeat, because they had both ironsights and crouching, they effectively offered 4 separate accuracy modes, to be used by the player as needed.

Hip Fire < Crouching < Iron Sights < Crouching w/ Iron Sights.

However I totally agree that prone/crouching positions really break the spirit of what brink is all about. moving and shooting!

On paper sure, but in practice? Trying riding shotgun in a Humvee in BC2 and shooting an assault rifle sighted, and a sniper scoped. There's a world of difference in the difficulty because a 1.5x zoom isn't enough to make a huge difference in difficulty of shooting while moving, while with snipers there is.

Perhaps we've had different experiences with this, and I would happy to settle for us agreeing to disagree on how difficult it would be to shoot while sighted at normal movement speed.



Sure you can fire behind cover while crouched if you find cover low enough to shoot over, but then you can't go lower to actually have your body entirely covered like you could if you found cover high enough to where you could only see over it while standing.

As for leaning around corners... I'm not familiar with how that works, but if you have to be sighted to lean - which at this point I'm assuming you do - getting stuck to corners while crouched has potential to cause much more issues than sticking to corners while sighted does.

But that is day of Defeat, not Brink. Those 4 methods were incorporated into the game, most likely because they complimented the maps/gameplay. For what the devs are going for in Brink, all those options for aiming is not needed. Just like how RTCW and ET have no ironsights - it compliments the gameplay.


When crouching behind cover, you don't have to fire OVER it, you peek out and fire around the sides.



You don't have to be sighted - I actually think it's its own separate mechanic. You don't even need your gun drawn. I think it's more to see whats going on, than to be used to actually shoot, but you can probably do both.

I totally agree that it doesn't compliment the brink style o'play

crouch shooting has no place in Brink, and iron sighting if implemented shouldn't be required to hit targets.

just trying to help answer the fundamental difference between iron sighting and crouching. (another difference -- crouching makes, your hit-box smaller)