Actually, I think Rainbow Six Vegas 1 & 2 got hip firing down pretty good.

Much like Borderlands you have good accuracy while hip firing, however on an assault rifle you get lots of recoil, and on an SMG you get a bit less, with an LMG you get an ungodly amount. now what the stated games do, is when you aim down sights, its more to make precise shots at a long range, as well as lower the insane amounts of recoil.

Most players will play with single shot on assault rifles when at a long range, and at a closer range, bring a burst fire/full auto SMG.

now Rainbow Six Vegas, isn't exactly a twitch shooter, i'm aware of that. But the only guy who was actually classified as doing a long-range engagement is that sniper WAAAAAY in the back of the map, picking off those guys behind cover with the teeny bit of their head poking out.

Now from a professional standpoint (I've played Rainbow Six Vegas 2 professionally for awhile, before I realized it wasn't fun anymore competitive like that.) Hip firing should do pretty well at a CQB or Close - Mid range engagement, but once you get to shooting at a guy thats about as big as your pinky on screen, you need to be able to aim a bit.

(Yes, I was that guy WAAAAAAAAAY in the back of the map, getting those guys that thought they were fine behind their cover.)

Is there a button for it or something? Because I've checked the controls like in your compendium and I've got nothing. And if it's an automatic thing... I can see that being a pain in the ass unless they perform a programming miracle.

Also, the only two times I saw peeking was in the Container City Preview, Pt. 2 video, and if I remember correctly, Wedgewood (Pretty sure it was him?) was sighted both times he leaned out.

Leaning in and out of cover is done by holding ironsights + left, right, or up on the Dpad to peek around. I'm not sure what it would be on PC. I'm hoping it will be like ET was, where you hold down the use button, and hit left or right. Regardless, I wasn't referring to using the lean mechanic when I said "peek out and fire around the sides." I was talking about simply moving so you can see past the side and start shooting.


He could have been spotted him because he opened fire. Besides, If you were using normal ADS and standing behind cover, they would see you as well, so I don't see why even mentioning that is relevant.

I don't think it will be ET style for the simple reason that in ET you couldn't shoot while leaning and the other team couldn't see you leaning. So when you were standing next to a wall and you were leaning, they were unable to spot you. I really really loved this mechanic but I think it's a bit outdated nowadays. Ofcourse it'd be great if leaning would work that way.

Oh, so you mean moving to sides of the cover and shooting that way. Well, that would be fine in some instances, but then you wouldn't be able to trip your opponent up by mixing up your movements - meaning sometimes popping out up top, and other times to the side (if you wanted the ADS effect). Also - what if you're behind a lengthy piece of cover? I'll try to illustrate:

X ====================== Y
<------Z---->(You)<----Z----->

The "=" sign represents cover you're behind - which can only be seen over by standing - while the letters X, Y, and Z represent potential spots to return fire at an opponent. To receive the benefit of a crouch-ADS, X and Y become your only two viable positions, and all of Z off-limits unless you stand up, which gets rid of the benefit of your crouch. So I'm still not convinced crouching would be a better solution.



...Either I'm misunderstanding this part, or you misunderstood what I had said - either way, I don't know to respond to this.

You need to play more games dude. YOu are arguing specific situations to form your opinion, and even then, crouching still works. In you illustration above, I would still use crouch to shoot over the side. I will say 99% of the time I am behind cover - ANY kind of cover - I am crouching. I also don't "sneak" by walking slower - I'm either sprinting or crouching and walking.

So you're saying you've never stood behind cover while shooting, and then crouched to fully conceal yourself after taking damage? That's a specific situation I've had happen many different times, in many different shooters.

And who said anything about sneaking? It would make no sense to walk slower to sneak, when you can simply crouch to not only make yourself move slower, but make yourself a smaller target. So on that point, I agree, although I'm not sure how relevant it is to this.

I never said "never," because I'm sure it's happened, but for the most part, if I'm behind cover, I'm crouched - It tightens up my shot and decreases my hitbox.

Yes, I agree it would be the preferred stance, but my issue with shooting over cover while crouched is that if I'm able to do so, it means my head will always be a ready target for enemies who are ready to take advantage of it, unless the game I am playing includes the ability to go prone. Because if you're shooting over cover while crouched, there is no possible way for you to go even lower so you're fully obscured.

Overall, the point I'm trying to make is, I would rather have none of my hitbox exposed while crouching, and simply stand when I shoot, rather than always having at least some of my hitbox exposed, regardless of my stance.

EDIT: Maybe you assumed I meant sneaking when I mentioned my entire body being obscured - If you did, I simply meant obscuring my entire hitbox so I can't be shot.

This is how 90% of games that incorporate both Aiming and Crouching work. It's how it SHOULD work. It's simply logical.

Once AGAIN:
I'm am NOT saying hip-fire should be in-effective or horribly in-accurate. I have never ONCE said that. Drop it from your argument.
I already know that Brink is about moving & shooting, and that hip-fire will be the primary mode of engagement. I KNOW THIS

ALL I AM SAYING IS
That hip-fire should have an accuracy penalty, Nothing drastic, but enough to make shooting at a target 20-30m away less then ideal.

That's it.

I hardly think that would be a game breaking, or even game changing, mechanic. It would simply make it function as one might logically deduce.

Logic.

It wins.

Not in video games.

Fun.

It wins.

and what I'm describing would ruin ur fun?

we're talking about ranges of almost half a foot ball field before you should aim....

maybe I should update, 50m+ you should aim

20-40m, it's pretty balanced

0-20m, hip-fire reigns supreme

almost all engagements are under 20m

so why cry?

Well duh, its not fun unless its laser accurate while running and gunning, shooting behind me and jumping over a wall at the same time. I thought everyone knew that.

I really hope it isn't laser accurate while run'n'gunning.

accurate ENOUGH, sure, but bullets should still miss if ur doing all that

What's fun for some isn't for others. However, a balanced game will get you the most amount of people having fun.

That's not always the case. Take this topic as a good example.
Let's say Brink would be a hip fire only game... No ironsight users would play it (I'm taking an extreme point of view here)
If it was a "ironsights are necessary to hit" game, no Hipfire players would play it.
If they make a balance which pleases neither side then Ironsight users, nor Hipfire players would play it.
When the balance is good and acceptable you will achieve the goal of attracting both audiences.

I still think hipfire rocks and I don't hope they add additional advantages to ironsights/hipfire. I think it's fine at this moment.

I don't know what you are smoking, but brink will def. have ironsights.

i really don't think going crazy and arguing over this so much will change anything

The truth is none of us know the REAL differences yet....

only time will tell how it's balanced

Actually, some of us do know the REAL differences - those of us who played it at QuakeCon and Gamescom. Also, PAX is this weekend.

Am I to take that as you have had a chance to play it?

And, not to be rude, but I have a hard time taking ppl's word sometimes, though you seem more knowledgeable then most.

No, I haven't played it, but I have spoken with people who have.

why is it called hip firing?
there not doing this: http://www.imfdb.org/images/b/b6/JT-SIG.JPG
are they?

Cause it's easier to say then "Shoulder fired but not while aiming down the sites"