Good day!
This is my first post in this forum and it will propably be a boring one!

Well let us begin:

Long, long ago I was checking through the wonderous http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Main_Page and history of Tamriel and the whole of Nirn.
I also found this http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Septim_Dynasty and thought it to be a wonderful piece of information!

I have also loved to read the books of Oblivion and Morrowind and one book is especially interesting!
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Wolf_Queen, the book about Potema Septim and the war she lead to.
There was one especially interesting part of it that I will now quote here:

Quoted from UESP wiki.
In the Septim Lineage Chart I looked up those two persons "Amiel and Galana" who seemed to be siblings to Pelagius Septim. That means that they were of Septim blood, nothing interesting yet... But! Galana Septim is going to marry the Duke of Narsis! For those who want more information about Narsis I can tell you:

Quoted from UESP wiki.

So... Galana Septim, sister of Pelagius Septim is going to marry this Duke of Narsis and it is a pretty sure bet he is a Dark Elf (just for interesting lore I am putting that in).
Now there are a major possible happenings that could have happened now:
1. The marriage never went off because of the diplomacy of the Septims. They maybe needed her for someone else (ruthless diplomacy, caring nothing about the people they tell to marry someone they propably have never seen, but that is unimportant).
2. The marriage never went off because the civil war came in the way of it (not likely since the civil war was many years after 3E 80, to be precise it is 32 years later).
3. The marriage happened but no childs were born.
4. The marriage happened AND childs were born!

If the 4th option happened then there may be a possibilty that a person of Septim blood is running around somewhere in Tamriel!

There is ofcourse many other interesting things that could have happened, for instance the heir could have been killed.
There is also a chance that the heir could be a Dark Elf... Interesting, will the Empire be ruled by a Dark Elf race? Possible, but not too possible. The Elder Council would propably try to marry the Emperor to an Imperial woman so that the child would also be an Imperial.
There is also a chance that the heir is not one but many!

Overall this means that there is a CHANCE that the Septim blood still exists!
However if the book known as "The Infernal City" (I have read parts of it and I know what it is about but not much more) is correct then there could be a conflict between Attrebus Mede/Titus Mede VS The Septim Survivor!
That would make for a really good story!
The Mede?s would try to keep their power intact while the last Septim would try to reclaim his throne which is rightfully his...

It would also make for a good RP if for example the Mede?s are sending a group of soldiers to assasinate, capture or re-instate (depending on the personality of the Mede?s) the last Septim to the throne! Ofcourse the Soldiers would have almost no idea where to look so their first bet would be to go to Narsis and search for clues there. Then their search could take them all across Tamriel!

So good people of this most honourable forum with people who are much older and wiser than little me, what do you think? I have known this since a long time ago but I have never had anyone to tell it to and now I just wanted to tell it to someone!

Oh... Just noticed a big mistake... I posted in the Artwork and Fan Fiction instead of lore! So sorry, I hope some moderator could move it... *goes out looking for random mod*

*A passing and very random mod moves this*

The TES seems to operate on a patrilineal descent system, not matrilineal or unilineal. Therefore, even if your mother was a Septim, you were not necessarily considered of Septim blood. However, in following the descent tree, there are instances of matrilineal Septim descent (Kintyra Septim and Uriel, for instance) but you will notice carefully these occurred because the other heirs, namely Pelagius Septim, failed to produce suitable heirs. And so, Kintyra's son continued the line.

However, only one jump is notable in the Imperial Tree, and that is Cephorous Septim II. All it states is that he was alleged a cousin more close in the Septim line than Uriel IV's own son. Otherwise, everything progresses in a notably patrilineal descent, switching only to Matrilineal when the son fails to produce a heir. However, if heirs are produced the other descent lines seem to be quite thoroughly abandoned.

So, in all likelihood, it would be viewed as blood too thin for the throne. And, if it was a Dark Elven child, too impure. Daughters are wedded off to produce heirs for the family they wed to, not the family they come from. Galana's children are likely ignored as throne prospects then, since her brother was fruitful, and it may be too far in the past now to justify a child's claim to the throne. While it is still possible, the people and many of the Elder Council may not find it to be a strong enough claim.

That's my take on the matter.

Here is something I have been wondering about:


Barenziah had a child by Jagar Tharn right after leaving the Imperial City after helping find the pieces of the Staff of Chaos, she was pregnant when she left and the child is discussed right up till about six months old - yet it mysteriously drops out of history, and the only two children mentioned after that are Morgiah and Helseth. So what happened to the baby by Jagar Tharn? This is a baby that was actually written in Lore, not just conjecture - but disappeared like the Dwemer.


Another conjecture I have is on Calaxes Septim. According to some Lore he just disappeared, and it was assumed he was assassinated by Lady Benoch. She won't deny or confirm this either way, but looks mysterious when questioned about it. How could they say he was assassinated without having any body found, it supposedly happened in the Temple of the One? If there is a Septim alive, I believe it is him. He may even be posing as Urken.

Rumors from such disreputable sources as The Common Tongue suggest there's more than one reason the King of Morrowind has mannish ears... or maybe it was the Camonna Tong, or some other source altogether.

It's been noticed over the years that the Septims have branches of the family, but it seems Bethesda is finished with the Septim line. Don't expect a distant relative to step forward in some future game.

I compare it somewhat with the concept of the "Mandate of Heaven". The gods are finished with the Septim line, and it remains to be seen if the Mede line has mythic connections, or are only secular rulers trying to piece the Empire together.

Rohugh: Thanks!

FC4: Oh... but the question is; would Akatosh be as picky as the Elder Council? Would a man whose grandfathers grandfather father was married to a daughter of the Emperors and if they had a child then would that man be able to wear the Amulet of Kings, light the dragonfires and stop the invasion of Mehrunes Dagon?
In either case, the Elder Council is not in charge anymore. A charismatic and clever person could claim to be a true Septim from for example Gallana and then say that the Elder Council was a group of old senile men who couldnt see a crisis if it so would jump up with a big paper saying "I AM A BIG CRISIS" in capital letters right in front of them. He could then gather an army and march upon Cyrodill, claiming the Imperial City as his own...

mALX1: Interesting, but how would a Archbishopric of The One in the Church of the Nine Divines know so much about weaponry that Lady Allena Belloch said:

She would propably be pretty picky about her weapons being in a good shape and I cant think of how a Archbishopric learned how to be a smithy!

Yeah I guess so... But the gods (all nine) shall know that the Septims are a very interesting piece of history...

I brought that up before Infernal city was even announced. It was my first post too, and so http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/c/c4/Fishystick.jpg there are probably hundreds with Septim blood, but none were 'pure' enough to fit the role that Martin took. The Amulet of Kings responds to ruling power, not to specific bloodlines (for example Mankar Camoran - with the world within his grasp - wears the amulet.) In related news, Hlaalu nobles almost all killed themselves when Indoril took power, and then whole place was attacked by Argonians leaving a few survivors from around Blacklight on Solsthiem and some from west of Narsis in Cheydinhal.

Where did it say Hlaalu nobles were committing suicide? If anything, it was Dres, Telvanni, Helseth, and Hlaalu who were expanding, if the Oblivion rumors are true. Indoril was in huge deep decline after MW, and had been declining since the treaty between Tiber and Vivec.

I had a couple typos there. I meant Indoril: Most families have relations in more than one Great House.

The selection of Cephorus over Andorak, the heir of Uriel IV Lariat, seems to have had more to do with politics than with blood. The Elder Council was in such a mood following the long history of contention with Uriel IV that they would have found enough Septim blood in a kagouti to crown it emperor over another Lariat.

But Helseth was already born and walking when Jagar Tharn's child was created. (Aside from Helseth being the half brother of Tharn's child with Barenziah)






Calaxes's unrest with Uriel Septim was actually during the time that Jagar Tharn was impersonating him. I think it is very possible he knew it was not his father and was trying to protect the country by establishing the theocracy. Lady Benoch was loyal to the real Uriel, and may have been able to see through the illusion, or Calaxes may have confronted her with his suspicions. She helped him to escape, Jagar Tharn may have ordered her to kill him. With her loyalty to Uriel Septim it would make sense if she protected Calaxes after that.

Calaxes would have had to go into hiding, he would no longer be an Arch Mage. She could have set him up under her roof as a servant in order to protect him from Jagar Tharn finding out he was still alive. It isn't likely someone of her background needs an armorer on staff at her home.

Calaxes might have been passed off as a simple priest of the bloated, Temple beaurocracy. Kvatch was quiet enough, and its temple of Akatosh was among the largest complexes in the West, so maybe he was hidden there. I don't doubt there were other bastards of Uriel, and a truer telling of the Oblivion crisis would have involved several surfacing.

I agree with that 100%. even having some false claims to sort through would have been possible (and probable). Also, it was too easy with a place the size of Cyrodiil to find Martin so quickly and easily; and then immediately everyone hails him as the heir without requiring or requesting proof as well. I think the search could have been extended without changing the rest of the Main Questline.

The years aren't too far off, Barenziah could have doctored the biography, she was queen.

She was with Symmachus creating Helseth, whose birth is well documented. (and he became the King of Morrowind.) She was no where near the Imperial City where Jagar Tharn was duing this time.

But the timing of her trip to the Imperial City when she did get pregnant was documented by other dates:

the death of Symmachus
her marriage to King Eadwyre
the death of Ria Silmane
Barenziah's and Eadwyre's removal to Wayrest
the end of Jagar Tharn's usurping of Uriel's throne

She was six months pregnant at the time she deciphered the last piece of the Staff of Chaos.

The child was one year old when she married Eadwyre.

Too many things are documented about the time she got pregnant with his child for her to be fudging dates.

So where is the child? Because as history continues it says Eadwyre adopted Helseth and Morgiah. Nothing more is mentioned about Jagar Tharn's child.

I wouldn't be surprised if she just disappeared him. The evidence of her consorting with the usurper isn't a good thing for a Queen to have around.

Then again, there's Wayrest Kid...

According to one of the lore songs, Barenziah was with about everyone from thieves, slaves, tavernkeeps, to cobblers and fishermen.

promiscuos elven girls, what can i say.

Yeah, but none of them were traitors to the Empire and impostors to Awesome and Terrible Majesty himself. That's a different sort of compromising.

Besides, bawdy pub songs aren't valued for being a source of information anyway.

Bloodline problem solved. Take some blood from Uriel Septim VII and inject it into Chancellor Ocato and SHAZAM! A new guy with Septim blood.

Ocato is a sellout to his people.

Septim line went on for too long. I'm beginning to like Titus Mede, he sounds different than your average old-guy emperor.