Hello folks,

at the moment I'm working on a article about the Towers and their functions. I've read the Guardian Theory and I like it. But I'm a bit confused about the towers. I'm gonna make a list:

• Ada-Mantium, Direnni-Tower at Hammerfell, Balfiera
  
• Red Tower at Vvardenfell, Red Mountain
  
• Whitegold Tower at Cyrodiil, Imperial City
  
• Crystaltower on Summerset, Alinor

This 3 are clear, but now the difficult ones:

• Green-Sap at Blackmarsh
  
• Snow Throat at Skyrim

Do you know, where they stand exactly? And what is "Falinesti"?

And now our favorite candidates:

• Walk-Brass
  
• Orichalc

Yeah... ehm... what can I say? That doesn't make sense. Is this a writing error? The Anumidium is the Akulakhan; the mechanic god by Dagoth Ur, just a copy of the real Numidium, which is constructed by the dwemer Kagrenac. Why should that be a tower instead of the original Walk-Brass?

Oh, and just by the way: the First Stone, which should be used to power the first Numidium was busy, because it was used by the Red Tower. In this case, Zurin Arctus created the Mantella to use it. The Anumidium tried the same: it wanted to use the - still busy - First Stone. That cannot work. Do you agree or did I misinterpret anything?

And yeah: what is the Orichalc? The imperial libary cannot find anything about it, except "Diagna (Orichalc God of the Sideways Blade)".

Thanks for your help guys

Regards

Are these wizard towers and magic stones?

Akulakhan by Dagoth Ur, was the second Numidium. The Brass-God by the Dwemer, the was the first.



I reckon both the Dwemer and Dagoht Ur were going to re-purpose Lorkhans Heart. I don't think it will cause any problems because it's also the focal point of another tower. More power to them really.



There were elves on Yokuda. Elves build towers.



Green-Sap refers to Falestini, the Walking tree in Valenwood. It's elves who build towers, not Argonians.

You can read about both in the PGE:

http://www.imperial-library.info/pge/skyrim.shtml
http://www.imperial-library.info/pge/aldmeridominion.shtml



No. You need to think on a much larger scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi

The Towers are both artificial constructs that the gods put in place in order to stabilize the mortal world, and the imitations made by mortals so they could influence reality like the gods did.


And Anumidum=Numidium=Walk-Brass, if that's not clear.

Snow Throat = High Hrothgar = Throat of the World. It's one of the things in Skyrim you really can't overlook. Take any map of Skyrim, it's the highest mountain there.

In ES V it will be known as Dive Rock Ultra.

Orichalc is a gold-silver alloy, claimed by Plato to be heavily used in Atlantis's construction (which strengthens the Crete hypothesis, but I degress)

In TES, it would seem to be some sort of magical material the the Left-Handed Elves used extensively in their technology.


They'll simplify the whole thing, in TES V the towers will be retconned to actually be holding up the sky.

Ah.

So if a person is inside a tower, do they essentially have the power of a god?

No, it doesn't work like that. The elves built towers because they are dissatisfied with the mortal world and want to exert some sort of control over it (stabilization or destruction or secession). Since the elvish races split up because of philosophical and religious schisms, rather than biology and evolution, they each have a spiritual worldview to peddle. Creating a tower is an act of theater that represents a culture imposing its perspective on reality, and the results are subtle. It's no coincidence that the Empire spends so much time ruling the world. They are connected by divine contract to White Gold Tower, which exerts incredible influence over the rest of the continent. When Cyrodiil maintains that relationship, they rule. When the Mythic Dawn shattered it, you saw what happened.

It's not really the physical structure that is important. One of the Towers is a mountain, another is a golem. But they all function as an axis mundi, and the shape that wikipedia didn't mention is that of the first person pronoun: I. Otherwise known as I AM, a name for one of the forces that created the universe and origin if individuality in a universe where none naturally exists.

I know that, that's why I decided to open a thread on this board. In "Facts and Opinions from the Nu-Hatta Intercept" was written, that the Walk-Brass is the Anumidium. But like I said, that makes no sense. Do you think that "B" made a type error or is it possible, that the Walk-Brass really is the Akulakhan?



I see. But why did Zurin Arctus create the Mantella and the Totem, if they were able to use the First Stone?



That means, that the Orichalc is/was a tower on Yokuda, the missing continent? What happened to it? Was it a building?



Thanks!



That makes no sense. Kagrenac build the first Numidium. Zurin Arctus created the Mantella and Tiber Septim used it to conquer the world. After Tiber Septims cheating, the Numidium was gone with the wind. Much eras later, Dagoth Ur awaked and rebuilt the second Numidium, the Anumidium or Akulakhan, with the plans of the original Numidium. But in this case: the first one and the second one had NO RELATION in no way. Numidium != Anumidium. That's why I'm confused.



How could you know that? TES V Skyrim is not announced at all.



What do you mean with "Left-Handed-Elves"? Which Mer-race to you mean?



Not exactly, but not untrue. Like paw-prints-in-the-mud said, the towers are not always buildings. But in fact, with the use of a stone (works like a sigil stone to an Oblivion-gate) an individuum is able to break the Dragon and become a (half)god like the Tribunal or Dagoth Ur. But the Dragon Break is a much bigger topic and doesn't fit into this thread.

Ah, yes, another question, about the Amulet of the Kings. Read this:





Who or what did exactly create the Chim-el Adabal? What was the true purpose? To use the "Whitegold-Polydox" or to use the dragon fires against Oblivion?

Numidium and Anumidium are names for the same thing¹, which is also Walk-Brass and the Numidium that Tiber Septim made a deal with Vivec for. They are often used interchangeably in the same document. Anumidium is not Second Numidium. Akulakhan would have been Second Numidium, had it not been for Azura's meddling.


I think it was meant to be facetious. Not something to challenge or lose sleep over.


Some have identified the Rourken clan of the Dwemer with the Left-Handed Elves (http://www.imperial-library.info/history/1.shtml). But Dwemer masters of an advanced kind of swordsmanship? It doesn't sound right to me. Furthermore, the Yoku were at war with the Left-Handed Elves on Yokuda (Mythic Era) long before the Rourken came to Hammerfell (ca. 1E420). But if the Left-Handed Elves are not the Rourken, then we don't know who they were.

¹Then again, maybe not exactly the same thing. http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=799545&view=findpost&p=11626472 http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=865761&view=findpost&p=12638601 Maybe "Anumidium" denotes the Dwemer attempt to deconstruct their creation myth; "Numidium" denotes the giant stompy golem that came of their attempt. But in any case, Anumidium, Numidium, and Walk-Brass refer to the same artifact, which is not Second Numidium, or Akulakhan.

Thanks, no I'm understanding the difference between Numidium, Anumidum and the Walk-Brass. There is none

Ok, it seems, that every tower was build by a different Mer-race with a different purpose:

1. Adamant/Direnni
Built by: Aedra
Purpose: Give Nirn divinity
Associated Race: unknown
Stone: unknown

2. Red Tower
Built by: Aedra
Purpose: unknown
Associated Race: Chimer, Dunmer
Stone: Lorkhans heart

3. Walk-Brass
Built by: Dwemer
Purpose: change creation in dis-creation
Associated Race: Dwemer
Stone: Mantella

4. Whitegold
Built by: Ayleid
Purpose: make themselves to gods
Associated Race: Ayleid
Stone: Chim-El Adabal

5. Green-sap
Built by: Bosmer
Purpose: unknown
Associated Race: Bosmer
Stone: unknown

6. Crystal-like
Built by: Altmer
Purpose: honor the elfish spirit
Associated Race: Altmer
Stone: unknown

7. Snow throat
Built by: unknown - maybe Falmer
Purpose: be near to the sky?
Associated Race: unknown - maybe Falmer
Stone: unknown

8. Orichalc
Built by: unknown
Purpose: unknown
Associated Race: unknown
Stone: unknown

Is this data correct? If yes, there are two races remaining: Maormer and Orsimer (Orcs). What are about them? Do they not have any relation to a tower?

They weren't, Vivec gave them only the Numidium, he kept the Heart for himself.

Dragon Break <==> Gods walking Mundus in their full presence. It's in the intercept.

Not sure what you are talking about with Oblivion gates.



It being the stone of the White Gold tower, the Ayleid ofcourse. The Dragon fires came later when Men took over.

I find Sigil Towers interesting. Given that removing the stone expels mortals in the tower back to Tamriel, as opposed to the portal simply shutting down and trapping you there, it seems that the towers blur the lines between Tamriel and Oblivion.

Aside from this, I've always wondered if the Order Obelisks in the Shivering Isles are towers from when it was a realm of Order. Furthering this idea is the fact that the power of the obelisk underneath Passwall is amplified by the spire.

Mafio,
My humble attempts to clarify your queries:


Its stone is the "impossipoint of the convection." http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=841535&view=findpost&p=12242657 wrote a good explanation of this phenomenon, it is in essence the thing that keeps Nirn stable.


Since the Falmer are the only elven race present in Skryim, it is safe to assume that it was indeed they who created the tower. The alternative would be that Snot Throat is another natural tower (created by the et'Ada).


The Orichalc was built by the Left Hand elves of Yokuda, and hence is associated with them. It was presumably destroyed during the Fall of Yokuda.

I believe that at their heart all towers are created for the same purpose: to return the Elves to divine status.

Language.

It's worth noting that Snow-Throat, like White-Gold is another tower that has become important to humans now that the elves are gone. The Nords believe that they were created on the slopes of High Hrothgar when the sky (Breath of Kyne) breathed on the earth. It is now their symbol as well, with the Greybeard that reside atop the steps and utter prophecy.

If this is true, why there was no Dragon Break at the end of TES IV? Akatosh is, so far I know, a god.



It was just an exeple. The sigil stones of the Oblivion-gates are important for it's function. If the stone get gone, the gate is out of function.



Yeah, I know. But the book I quoted say something else. Is this a "lie"? Do u know any book or scroll, where it is excactly said, that the Ayleid built the amulet?



Ok, but it is said, that the Aldmer splitt off, because they wanted to emulate the Aedra in their own ways. If you want, they splitt off to recunstruct the towers. But if this is true, what's about the two remaining races, the Maormer and the Orcs? Do they just splitt off, because of, that the were borred?



I don't think so. The ayleid were the only race, which wanted to be gods. The dwemer as example wanted to create "unlife", a mechanic god. Not "mortal life" to "god life". But that is just my interpretation.

Thanks a lot, guys.

all the elven races are fundamentally pissed at not being divine. they see themselves as having been gods once and having degenerated into lesser, weaker forms due to Lorkhan's trickery. many of their endeavors (from tower building to emulate their assixrs, to Mankar's whole deal, to the various walking ways) are attempts to get back to their original divinity. the dwemer built numidium and infused it with their souls in hopes of transcending mortality and returning to their original proper status (whether they succeeded is debatable).

afair, the aldmer were already split during the convention (though you can never be sure of time during the dawn). the building of towers was not their only difference. the orsimer followed a daedra god and are therefore probably exempt from the building of towers. the maomer are a tiny population. besides, where does it say that all elves built towers?

the White Gold preceded men, and the amulet of kings being its stone did as well. furthermore, the ayleids had no problems trafiking with daedra, and would therefore not need any silly dragonfires (also, the amulet preventing daedric invasion is rather dubious, being that no daedra managed to invade in the years that the amulet was missing from cyrodiil). the numantia intercept speaks of the Ayleids, not men, as the masters of the Chim-El Adabal. the stone itself underwent probably underwent various changes, including merging with alessia and being set into a gaudy amulet.

The Ayleids were similar to the Altmer in purpose, and primarily varied in method. The Dwemer didn't want to create a deity, they wanted to use mechanical means to turn themselves into a single deity that would supersede the whole schema of gods and mortals.

Just an avatar, I think. The Nine Divines aren't really cohesive enough (any more) to materialize anywhere, and the Daedra simply don't belong. If you notice, the Dragon Breaks result from the apotheosis of homegrown gods wreaking havoc on the established order.



Its origin is unknown. Before being appropriated by the Aedra and given to Alessia, it had an Ayleid name. Since White-Gold Tower is an artificial structure, it stands to reason that the Stone is as well. But since we don't know of any artificial Stones that match the other Towers, it is entirely possible that it is not simply a jewel the Ayleids cut and named.


The Ayleids were similar to the Altmer in purpose, and primarily varied in method. The Dwemer didn't want to create a deity, they wanted to use mechanical means to turn themselves into a single deity that would supersede the whole schema of gods and mortals.

Also, Dragon-Breaks is when the dragon of time, Akatosh, is literally broken to make way for a new god to come (Talos' ascension, and the 7 ending of Daggerfall to name a couple). The Jills, or his female dragon lady friends, then come to fix him up a bit.

Or something like that.

Akatosh appearing in Nirn would not have caused a dragon break, because the dragon wasn't even broken to begin with.

I don't believe the Orcs ever became organized enough to build any towers. They also didn't so much split over a difference in philosophy but were exiled when they failed to stop the Chimer exodus.

As for the Maomer, we know almost nothing about them.

I agree... that makes sense.



Ah, I thought, that the dragon breaks, if there is the presence of gods. Do you mean, that the time become only breaked, if anyone become a god because of an apotheosis? I assumed, that you have to break the dragon to become a god. Is it backwards? - become a god causes a dragon break? Interessting. How does it works? Second question: is every Aedroth able to "jump" into a mortal to become an avatar?



That makes sense. I was confused, because of the Alessia book. But it seems, that this is just nonsense like the definition of the nightmother (in one book, she was just an "fired" member of the thieves guild, in another she was Mephala herself).



If you believe or not; that's what I tried to say. My english is much worse than I thought. =/



I'm not very familar with Talos and his freakin mysteris (is he Zurin? Ysmir? and the other scary tales), but I always assumed, that he becomed a god after his death, choosen by the eight. Did he become a god by apotheosis? And... what are the Jills? I read about them/it - they repair the time. But what are they? et'Ada?

The Dragonfires preceded the Dwemer's placing of enchantments on the Heart of Lorkhan; given that Red Tower is deactivated after the enchantments on it are destroyed, it's likely that Red Tower was not activated until the Dwemer meddled with the Heart. Nerevar and Dumac attended the coronation of the Alessian Emperor in the later years of the Alessian Empire- and around the time that Kagrenac would have placed the enchantments on the Heart. Hence why Mehrunes Dagon could not invade when the Dragonfires ceased previously, because there was another Tower.