Ever in the main TES series? I don't mean Legends, ESO and other games outside the numbered main series. Do you consider a good thing if they returned or a bad thing?

I for one hope they return, as they are a versatile tool that can be adapted to many different aspects of the game... But i won't shed a tear for the death of the old system. If the options are the old system, or none, i'll gladly take none.

Yes I agree hunting the attribute bonus for level up wasn't nice bur I miss the definition of a character's natural strentgs and weaknesses by attributes. I like to have both acquired skills and natural born talents.

There is only one correct answer: Todd Howard. Tell me if he's in charge of the future games and I tell you what happens to the attributes (and other stats!)

I would like them to return, but in a modified form. For one thing I think Attributes should be much harder to raise than in former games. And some Attributes, I believe, should be permanent. For instance, I have always thought that Luck and Intelligence should not change after character creation.

I would decrease the spread from 100 down to ten, as in the Fallout games. I would eliminate racial Attributes. Instead, during character creation we could adjust Attributes on a per-character basis, as in Daggerfall. I would allow the raiseable Attributes to be raised by one point every three to five levels, similar to New Vegas' system.

I would spit the ten points into half, with five being the baseline. Values above five would confer positive effects; values below five would confer negative effects. Certain Attributes, such as Strength, might degrade over time back to the baseline value if Strength-related skills were unused or abandoned.

And so on...

If they were to return more improved upon, sure. If they come back being the same crappy system of old, I'd rather they not return at all.

I have some doubts the former would happen. Bethesda seems more fond of throwing previous ideas out the window entirely and shoving in something new, rather than actually improving upon those previous ideas. Then it's just a cycle of flawed game mechanics with none of them ever actually getting perfected.

It's problems went much further than that. The aspects of gameplay that the Attributes governed were overly focused, limiting diversity in approaches and 'classes', they competed too much with Skills, lacked any real worldly interaction, and were generally too little a concern too quickly to really amount to anything useful. The fact that the values were the same for everyone didn't help matters any either. It was really just an antiquated system that had been replaced by the Skills since Morrowind, and hung on for no better reason than it was what people were used to having.

I feel if attributes come back than they would have to fit in with the game and that it has meaning. In previous TES games they felt lackluster and I did not miss them in Skyrim, I did miss the lack of spell making in Skyrim.

I'm ok either way. I enjoyed both the skill tree and the attributes.

Not the way they were, they were pretty meaningless and didn't really effect the world in anyway. Now if they had an effect beyond increasing carry weight, health, and magicka then sure.

I also hope they return but in an improved fashion. My biggest issue with them was how you leveled them up. Having to "efficiently level" to get the +5/+5/+5 was a flawed system, and felt rather gamey. The going to sleep to suddenly become more lucky, much more agile, etc. doesn't make much sense either.

I wouldn't say Intelligence shouldn't change, but I would agree with luck being static. It doesn't make sense to suddenly become more lucky because you decided to. Something similar to Daggerfall might be okay with me, but Daggerfall randomly gave you 4-6 points to distribute instead of a set amount. It should be a specific amount of points to dole out if we were to take this route.

My thoughts on how to increase the attributes sounds similar to yours, I think. I am not sure about exact numbers, but I also think that attributes should be raised by a point every time you level a relevant skill [x] amount of times. That way you don't have to worry about any "efficient leveling" nonsense and it feels like a much more natural progression of a character.

I am on the fence about attributes degrading over time if they are not used though.

I'm not, though it's never been a popular idea when it's come up, so I've mostly left it alone. I think it's predominantly viewed as a maintenance activity (which, admittedly, I am against) rather than a way to encourage specialization.


Overall, though, I'm not a fan of overly static Attributes either. While everyone has different potential thresholds of the characteristics represented by Attributes, the actual expression can vary wildly over an individual's lifetime. Even Michael Phelps isn't going to stay in that shape forever. Static numbers create too much of an image of an individual who is perpetually at their peak, which limits progression, identity and even gameplay options.


It's probably worth noting that I don't think I've ever played a game with what I would call a 'Good' attribute system. Many contain elements of a robust and versatile system, but on the whole they range from superficial to functional, but never really represent the sort of dynamic and expressive range that the concepts they cover really offer.

If they do i hope they do it similar to fallout 4 you either can spend the point on an attribute or a perk skill. Or make them seperate points every 3 or so levels gets you a single attribute point to spend while every level you get one skill point.

Yes I absolutely 100% think attributes returning in The Elder Scrolls VI and The Elder Scrolls (Insert number) would be a very good thing.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim with mods bringing back the attributes makes it even more enjoyable and fun to play.

Edit: Yes the attributes need to return.

I'm hoping they return, but my expectations are really low that it will ever happen, especially with Todd Howard running things. The Attributes were an essential part of defining a character, but the previous leveling system to increase them (multipliers) was an abomination that should be purged with fire. Sadly, while Oblivion had Attributes and the hated leveling system with multipliers, it barely made any use of those Attributes. When something isn't used, why keep it? Gone in the next game, like so many other things from game to game. Better yet, why not actually USE it for what it was intended for: making characters distinctive from each other from the start, without having to play half the game before that begins to happen.

Contrary to what Pseron Wyrd suggests, I feel that a 1-10 system would be terrible, as even a single digit change would be a 10% increase. Given a "baseline" average of 4 or 5, that means only 5-6 changes and you've maxed out the Attribute. With the previous 1-100 system, and an increase limited to one or two SINGLE POINT increases (of anything that you increased a skill for), you should never be able to max out the character. Quite simply, 100 in an Attribute should be god-like, and not something achievable in the game unless you focus everything on that one specific goal, if even then.

A sharply limited ability to increase Attributes would mean that your base stats would only vary by a few percent over the course of play, with those starting values having a small but significant effect on everything you do for the rest of the game. You could overcome low Attributes by compensating with higher Skills, or with magical enhancements and fortifications, but if your character is inherently small and weak, you're not going to turn them into a hulking brute in a few levels (if ever), and if they're basically stupid, then reading a couple of books isn't going to turn them into another Einstein overnight. If that's the kind of character I choose to play, why should the character behave exactly the same as every other character? The ability to play different characters, and play them completely differently, is what drew me to TES in the first place.

I do agree with Pseron's comment that Luck shouldn't change, at least not without some kind of supernatural influence.

I agree, we should keep it at a 1-100 system if attributes return. In real life, you wouldn't have such an exponential increase in such a short amount of time. It feels more natural to have attributes rise incrementally. I don't think there should necessarily be anything to cap you from hitting 100 in an attribute if you wanted to, but it should definitely be hard to attain. In any case, I think the way you level up attributes needs to be completely revamped from what it used to be.

The 1-10 and 1-100 scale would ultimately depend on how Attributes increase, or if they increase at all.

For largely, or entirely static Attributes, the 1-10 scale is definitely more favourable, because it allows each and every point of difference to have a noticeable impact, and thus effect the final outcome of character. Even a single point of difference, between 5 and 6, end sup feeling different, rather than being a superficial number on a spreadsheet somewhere.

If you're having Attributes that change over time, however, the larger scale is more favourable. It creates a more gentle progression slope and makes progression feel more organic, as well as prolong the relevance of it's improvement. Off course, the larger the scale, the more difficult it is to manage rate and impact, but 1-100 is probably a good model... Depending on HOW you increase those Attributes.

One of my biggest beefs with the old model, however, wasn't the progression (though it was pretty rubbish) but the fact that everyone had the same thresholds. With enough work, EVERYONE can be just as strong, just as smart, just as agile... It's not really that great a characterisation tool when everyone's the same.

At the end of the day, the old system was full of so many flaws and problems that it didn't really do what it was intended to. It's functional impact was minimalistic, it's ability to facilitate different characterisation was nullified by set scales and overly Class-Focused impact, it's method for adjustment was total rubbish, and its presence as a Gameplay Concern ended far too quickly at the best of times.

About the only thing it did right was the CONCEPT of Attributes.

I think the days of the attributes are over. the entire genre of roleplaying is moving away from character focus to player focus and with it attributes make less sense. Shame though as it also removes a lot of depth to the character you can play.

The leveling system in TES2-4 was broken as in space shuttle accident. It worked in Morrowind and Daggerfall as the games was very easy at higher levels and you had loads of skills you could improve to get +5. Oblivion was hard at higher levels and you was skill starved and had training limits.

I tend to play bosmer or Khajit females both has low strength and it was always an interesting challenge to raise it. however the system was broken. Not quite sure how it could be fixed, one way might be like Fallout specials, you could use an perk point to raise an attribute, this let you make perks more significant unless you play very specialized.


I liked how you raised health, stamina and magic in Skyrim, I leaned in Fallout 3 and later Oblivion that the game became much more fun with low health.

My Skyrim carracters had less than 200 health, moved up difficulty towards master as I leveled up,

High level enemies could single hit to kill me, high level dragons with breath attack unless I used potion. With my crafted gear I could kill most things fast too for an balance.

No this is not for everyone but i tend to play sneaky characters, even my Oblivion mages sneaked as they was glass cannons, or perhaps glass boomers was more fitting on the latest.

Using command creature on an goblin warlord get seriously insane then the warlord becomes permanent hostile to goblins

Bethesda tend to drop stuff who don't work very well rather than try to fix it. Attributes in TES skills in Fallout.

They also tend to mess up as in Skyrim magic outside of necromancy "bad", Oblivion level scaling "ugly" and Fallout 4 dialogue "way worse than my nightmares".

They also learn from their mistakes, level scaling has been mostly solved.

they have got to come back, properly designed attributes would have made skyrim so much better, even poorly designed ones would have given modders a better place to jump off of

I like this variation and adjustment. Some attributes should not increase and others maybe a little. It'd be cool is Willpower factored into how much "change" could occur.

That being said, I voted, "No. They are gone forever." It would be a pleasant surprise if they did make a comeback, but I don't see the series going in that direction. Quite the opposite direction is how I see it going.

My reasons are that *we*, the players are using our own skills for combat and such. Attributes in a game where player skill is most important is rather pointless, don't you think?

If Bethesda Game Studios added back Attributes, etc in The Elder Scrolls VI.

I would lose it.

I didn't think Attributes were pointless in Oblivion, which is a game that is just as player-skill-focused as Skyrim. In Oblivion our sword did more damage as Strength increased, we were not knocked back as often when Agility increased, we were more deadly with spells as Intelligence and Willpower increased, and so on. I thought Attributes added some nice roleplaying flavor to character progression even though that game, like Skyrim, was heavily dependent upon player skill.

I didn't experience much of Oblivion, but Skyrim lacks this aspect, I think. It is perks, not attributes that power the attacks, which some say is Skyrim's version of attributes.

What I miss most about attributes is the synergy between skills based on those attributes. If one's Strength improves, some weapon skills gets better, you can carry a little more, you can jump further, and you're able to take more damage (or mitigate more damage). If one's Intelligence improves, some spells get more effective and you're better at picking locks. I really dislike the "one thing" type of leveling. it segments abilities into rather unrealistic advancements, in my opinion.