The Theoretical Power of : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:06 am

Does anyone have any idea on the theoretical power of Sithis, The New Sheogorath, Talos, Vivec, Almalexia & Sotha Sil?
Lets oppose Sithis to like...Jyggalag.
The New Sheogorath to any other Daedric Price.
Talos to any other divine.
Vivec, Almalexia & Sotha Sil to a Daedric Prince and Talos.

Is Sithis even real? If so what is the extent of his maximum power?

What are the limitations of the new sheogorath's power?

Is Talos totally and completely equal to the other nine divines or is he more of a divine herald for them that is just held in equal esteem?

What are the extents of Vivec, Almalexia & Sotha Sil's power?

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:20 pm

It depends on how they master their chakra which flows through their energy, which certain individuals are capable of casting kage bunshin no jutsu.

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:11 am

Sithis isn't sentient, so it has no "powers", whatever that's supposed to mean.

The new Sheograth probebly has the same powers as the old one, afterall they are the same thing.

Besides that, all gods have power based on the belief in their spheres.

In Talos's case, the stronger the emprie is the stronger he/they are.

In the Tribunal's case, the more they are worshiped by the Dunmer, the stronger they became. That is why Almelexia had substantial power despite the heart being destroyed.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:10 pm

Comparing Sithis to Jyggalag is like comparing the laws of quantum mechanics to the New York subway system. How would you compare those two things? I have no idea.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:48 pm

Comparing Sithis to Jyggalag is like comparing the laws of quantum mechanics to the New York subway system. How would you compare those two things? I have no idea.

So Sithis has no power at all?

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:32 pm

So Sithis has no power at all?

He has the ultimate power.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:31 pm

As I've seen others say, Sithis is moreso a force rather than a being; it's the soul of Padomay, the mythic personification of change, or rather, chaos. Sithis, being literally nothingness, was/is the basis of existence, everything, which is Anuiel, the soul of Anu, who is stasis. Hell, from the book "Sithis" itself, "Sithis is the start of the House." That said, he doesn't necessarily have an impact, per se, on Jyg.

As Mortazo said, I think Talos is as strong as the Empire is; his existence literally created the Imperials. If the Empire goes, then I currently feel like Talos would be screwed. that said, Talos is as much as divine as the other Eight; thus, he is called a Divine.

The new Sheog's powers are probably limited only through the fact that he isn't et'Ada, which may or may not be a major issue (probably isn't).

We've seen the extent of the Tribunal's power: put bluntly, them [censored]es are dead, Vehk excluded. I very much believe they were gods, but being "Living" gods, you're automatically limited, seeing as most other gods are dead.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:52 pm

He has the ultimate power.

Or rather, he has absolute power. He is an absolute. He's just a constant at work in the world. E=MC^2

And occasionally he's a statue of Lorkhan, but getting fifty friends and mixing up your mythology doesn't create divine beings.

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:45 am

So Sithis has no power at all?

It has enough power to trick some goths living in a basemant below a house in Cheydinhal into thinking it's the goth god of death and eeeeevil. (And to power up a shrine of eeeeevil in a certain plugin. But http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisContinuity)

Worshipping Sithis is like worshipping the laws of physics. It... doesn't work. Sithis has/is power, but not in the way you're thinking.

I so [censored] hate Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood...

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:59 pm

It has enough power to trick some goths living in a basemant below a house in Cheydinhal into thinking it's the goth god of death and eeeeevil. (And to power up a shrine of eeeeevil in a certain plugin. But http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisContinuity)

Worshipping Sithis is like worshipping the laws of physics. It... doesn't work. Sithis has/is power, but not in the way you're thinking.

I so [censored] hate Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood...

The Vile Lair statue had no heart. The implication is that Sithis is related to Padomay and is related to (through the torturous road of corruptions and interpretations by many cultures) ...Lorkhan, which is the deity the DB mistakenly worships. Their prayers are very nearly irrelevant, with their small numbers, hackery, and machinations of dead ghosts and Mephala.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:01 pm

I feel like an ass. I should've not said anything.

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:22 am

Worshipping Sithis is like worshipping the laws of physics. It... doesn't work. Sithis has/is power, but not in the way you're thinking.

No. The laws of Physics are SOMETHING, Sithis isn't anything. Its even more pathetic then that. Its a total waste of time. However, since the DB also murders constantly, they are indirctily worshipping another diety.

machinations of dead ghosts and Mephala.

That's who they worship. I really don't see them worshiping Shezarr very much. However, since they all murder and do it with the EXACT SAME techniques that Mephala taught the Morag Tong, it is she that is benefiting from their "worship". All their stupid prayers and rituals to "Sithis", those are wastes. however, every time one of them picks up a knife and kills in the name of the DB, that is worshiping, and thus strengthening, Mephala. And, just to be safe, she materializes as the Night Mother every so often to make sure they continue fueling her power.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:30 pm

Hmm, **Blows dust off 'Lore for Dummies'**

Chapter One: What is Sithis?Firstly, Sithis is not the God of Death! The Dark Brotherhood are psychopaths that murder lore as well as people!NIRN. Nirn is the plane of our existence. In the language of the et'ada, that is, the spirits that became Aedra, and Daedra, the Ehlnofex, means ARENA. Nirn is the interplay of the opposing primordial forces Anu and Padomay, or Anuiel and SITHIS. Anu is life, infinite energy abudance. Anu is the sum of all limitlessness. Infinite-ness essentially. Sithis is entropy, ending, death. Sithis is the sum of al limitation. Nothing essentially. Yet it does exist.I still dont understand!If you lived forever, your life would be completely Anuic in nature.If you never existed, your non-life would be comepletely Padomaic in nature.But you dont live forever, your life-spans sum, is the interplay of Anuiel and Sithis, you exist but not forever.But that sounds like the Dark Brotherhood! They said....**SLAP**Just because you kill someone, doesnt make Sithis stronger!I still don't understand.You are six feet tall, not infinite feet tall, nor zero feet tall. Anu is the infinite tree, that Sithis cuts down to size.Is that like 'What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?'*GASP* Such insight! Yes. Nirn is the answer to that question. Things exist, but not infinitely, and not forever. Neither is the birth of new things halted.I think I get it now.Hey, you'll catch on. I had to be kidnapped and brainwashed by MK Lore-Khan cultists before I really understood.That means nothing to me.Just stay away from proweler, Luagar2, and Albides, and you should be okay. OMG!! There they are!! RUN!!! They have the Monomyth in hand and lots of spare time! WE'RE DOOOOMED!!

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:13 am

Hmm, **Blows dust off 'Lore for Dummies'**

Anu is infinity, Sithis is limit, together they are the balance of Nirn?

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:02 pm

Yes, exactly! NIRN is the ARENA/PLAYGROUND/ARMWRESTLINGMATCHTHATGOESNOWHERE of these two primordial, unsentient, ineffable forces. You dont view the kinetic energy in a bullet as a 'god' do you? The et'ada, aka Aedra and Daedra, are Incarnations, or personifications of aspects of these forces that ARE sentient. No they were not pre-destined to there spheres, they were chosen/assigned/tricked by them, or another et'ada.

et'ada are the mold or container of the forces aspects. When they BECOME the forces aspect, is when the term Aedra or Daedra is applied to them.

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:00 am

I've always been under the impression that all the misconceptions about Sithis/Padhome come from Ehlnofey mistranslations.

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:19 am

Sithis isn't really a god or an entity, it's not really anything and it never has been. It exists, yes, but in the same way gravity exists. It's a force from the Monomyth, Anuiel-Sithis, Anu-Padomay, IS-ISNOT. Sithis is a void, and, as far as I can make out, voids aren't sapient.
Ask anyone in the Dark Brotherhood who/what Sithis is and you'll get different answers every time, but if you ask someone about a Daedra or Aedra you'll get similar answers (The exception being Sheogorath). They're just delusional killers, in the best possible way.

As for the Night Mother, I say it's just Mephala playing along and having a laugh at the only cult in existence that worships a non-existent god.

Prowler on The Elder Scrolls Forum:
Through six, the Night mother created Murder. Mephala couldn't leave a bigger signature.

As for the Altar of Sithis in the Vile Lair:

I know the mod, but did not work on it (and didn't write that particular piece of fiction). Though, as the "Dark Brotherhood guy," I was of course consulted before work began.

I can't speak for the designer who did the Vile Lair, but I guess I imagine that the NPC in that fiction, Greywyn, believed his prayers were answered because he wanted to... because he interpreted some sign or event. You've got to admit, the guy sounds obssessed, even delusional. I certainly never imagined Sithis had a voice, or even a personality, and in Oblivion's fiction, Sithis has only once communicated directly with anyone -- the Night Mother (and the details of even that meeting are sketchy at best). In my mind, Greywyn believed Sithis was speaking to him... and that's all that really matters. - Emil @ Blood and Shadows.

So it wasn't even created by the guy who knew all of the lore. Anyhow, the altar could be connected to any entity (I vote for Mephala, since it has a spider on it. Or Clavicus Vile, since it's Vile Lair.)

All Tamrielic religions begin the same. Man or mer, things begin with the dualism of Anu and His Other. These twin forces go by many names: Anu-Padomay, Anuiel-Sithis, Ak-El, Satak-Akel, Is-Is Not. Anuiel is the Everlasting Ineffable Light, Sithis is the Corrupting Inexpressible Action. In the middle is the Gray Maybe ('Nirn' in the Ehlnofex).

(...)

Anuiel is also perceived of as Order, opposed to the Sithis-Chaos. Perhaps it is easier for mortals to envision change than perfect stasis, for often Anuiel is relegated to the mythic background of Sithis' fancies. In Yokudan folk-tales, which are among the most vivid in the world, Satak is only referred to a handful of times, as "the Hum"; he is a force so prevalent as to be not really there at all. - Monomyth Intro

SITHIS IS A FORCE OF NATURE. SITHIS IS THE SOUL OF PADOMAY. IT'S NOT A HE. IT DIDN'T HAVE FIVE BABIES. IT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KILL (IT DOESN'T CARE IF YOU DO).

IT ISN'T THE GOD OF DEATH (That's Arkay, actually). THERE'S NO GRIM REAPER IN TES-VERSE.

MadCat221 on The Elder Scrolls Forum:

The Dark Brotherhood as seen in TES4 is Tamriel's equivalent of bratty kids who think they're all cool and deviant because they discovered Satanism.

--Sorry, you hit a sore spot.

On the afterlife , from what I've understood, unless the mortal in question has been devout in its worship of an Aedra/Daedra (or if it's unlucky enough to be made into an undead)it's put into the dreamsleave. The dreamsleave basically strips the mortal of memories/feelings/ideas and take apart the soul. The soul-bits float around until they're combined with other soul-bits and reincarnated, in a sense. So, the Dreamsleave is a great big recycle-bin in the Grey Maybe (I don't really know where it is, I'm just making a wild guess).

For the souls that have been devout to an Aedra/Daedra, they're shipped off to the Aethuris(Spelling?)/Oblivion, doing whatever the Aedra/Daedra of their choice demands.

The misconceptions come from oversimplifying. Most people are unaware of the rich lore that TES contains. OB didnt exactly help with that.

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:30 pm

Yes, exactly! NIRN is the ARENA/PLAYGROUND/ARMWRESTLINGMATCHTHATGOESNOWHERE of these two primordial, unsentient, ineffable forces. You dont view the kinetic energy in a bullet as a 'god' do you? The et'ada, aka Aedra and Daedra, are Incarnations, or personifications of aspects of these forces that ARE sentient. No they were not pre-destined to there spheres, they were chosen/assigned/tricked by them, or another et'ada.

et'ada are the mold or container of the forces aspects. When they BECOME the forces aspect, is when the term Aedra or Daedra is applied to them.

Now this is making sense. All the times someone had tried to explain Sithis they have failed to mention Anu, which means that the explanation just get to crooked to understand properly.

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:21 am

Now this is making sense. All the times someone had tried to explain Sithis they have failed to mention Anu, which means that the explanation just get to crooked to understand properly.

Glad I could help. Im still a student myself really. Sithis is difficult to understand, Anu isnt. The interplay is not hard to understand at all, once you realize what it is.

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:18 am

raggidman having found a new invisible room to roost in arrives with a hastily penned question and an unsettling answer for all those Lore 'Masters' who have claimed to be able to explain Sithis:

heh - try this: Is Sithis Negation? or the force of Negation? rofl You see if there is difference then there is no negation - Why is this important? What can this mean? Differrence implies substance in one that is not in the other and it works both ways therefore (remember those three little dots in a triangle?) Sithis must have substance to exist in discussion and Sithis cannot exist in discussion

:D

I would lik eto add a detail that others have commented on. It seems that to become a true God you must 'leave the mortal plain' - in mortal terms, die? So how is it that The Tribunal members in the minds of so many by dying from a simple sword thrust are not merely dead, but destroyed? Yeah you stuffed your sword through Almalexia's belly and you saw Sotha-Sil's husk - well that was their Mortal Husk. Did you kill their souls?

Well wow, a dev said Sotha-Sil is gone forever ... so maybe they just became real Gods

What if by dying the Tribunal members have ascended to become that which they have through techno-vampirism and trichery pretended to? What is there in the Lore that denies this other than opinion?

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:52 pm

Anu and Padomay

OK sooo, Aedra..Anu? Daedra..Padomay?

So Aedra are "related" to Anu..which is limitless life energy or constant being..So then wouldnt them creating Nirn..a place of life, and death..Anuic and Padomaic..be pointless? Since creating a place where people die would be against their nature if they are Anuic?

If thats so then what the heck is Lorkhan?..Padomaic since he tricked them into making a BIG change?

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:34 am

Anu and Padomay

OK sooo, Aedra..Anu? Daedra..Padomay?

So Aedra are "related" to Anu..which is limitless life energy or constant being..So then wouldnt them creating Nirn..a place of life, and death..Anuic and Padomaic..be pointless? Since creating a place where people die would be against their nature if they are Anuic?

If thats so then what the heck is Lorkhan?..Padomaic since he tricked them into making a BIG change?

Yes, Aedra are Anu aligned, Daedra are Padomay aligned as is Lorkhan. Yes, Nirn does go against the Aedric nature - it was Lorkhan's 'idea'/'trick'; its called a 'trick' because it, as you said, makes the Aedra go against their nature...

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:08 am

Well then no wonder the Aedra never help out, the very existence of Nirn goes against their nature. Surely then the people of Nirn best represent Padomaic nature..sure they have some Anuic nature..like..living. Could this be why mostly just Daedra communicate with Nirn?..since they are Padomaic?..surely they see a little (or alot) of themselves in us..since all we do is change..from the very moment of birth all we do is change.

» Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:46 am

Daedra didn't give anything to existence, let alone mortals; thus, they are the Daedra. Existence is the result of a Unstoppable Force (Padhome/Sithis) hitting an Immovable Object (Anu/Anuiel). The Mundus is a place of static change.

I personally don't think you can call the mortals "Padomaic" in nature. If you listen to the Anuad, Nir (who gave birth to creation; the cosmos) loved Anu and not Padomay. Why did she love him? Because mortals favor stability; they desire order. In a sense, you could say it's in our nature to change, but in the end, we wish for order. Change is too risky compared to stasis.

For the sake of asking an extremely random, but somewhat relevant, question, would the word "Padhomaic" be grammatically correct, anyone...?

» Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:36 pm

Where is it that people keep getting this notion that the Aedra never do anything???