I was watching a program on the Science channel the other day which was talking about old abandoned tunnels under New York city, and one of them was said to be a place where bodies of people killed by Chinese crime syndicates known as "Tongs" were occasionally dumped.

It occurred to me that this is a probable inspiration for the usage of the word in Morrowind. Can anyone verify this? Has this hypothesis been posted before? Do you believe there's a possibility the Chinese crime syndicates were a partial inspiration for organizations like the Morag Tong and Commona Tong?

Thieves and assassin's guilds are a staple of heroic fantasy and don't necesseraly owe to the chinese Tongs in their elder scrolls declination. but in my opinion the name is clearly from there.

For the real world source of inspiration, the Morag Tong can be likened to Ifndia's thughees (not sur of the spelling), Kali-worshippers who murdered as a religious duty. Also to the crusade-era haschashins.

The parallel is stronger for the Cammona Tong : like the chinese tongs it's a criminal organisation with a nationalistic agenda (or a nationalistic organisation that devolved int oa criminal one).

Tong is just another word for criminal syndicate, really, and the one they happened to choose for Dark Elf groups.

Morag Tong isn't a criminal organization; they're actually pretty legal, if i'm recalling certain piece of lore right. At least in Morrowind they're legal.

Tong is nothing more than a Dunmeri word.

Tong probably means something like "group".

Well obviously, in the context of the in-game Universe. This topic is about where the term came from, and I think it's probable the Chinese organizations influenced the name and certain aspects of the Commona Tong's behavior.

'Tong' actually means 'guild,' and 'morag' means 'forester.'

Someone mentioned the hashashin, but they murdered for politics instead of religion, while the Morag Tong doesn't really gain political benefits from what it does.

Maybe. But concerning criminal organization inspirations, I don't know if that holds too much water considering many criminal organizations can seem similar to the Camonna Tong. I feel the only basis for your idea is the fact that "Tong" is in their name, especially considering the fact you mentioned the Morag Tong, an organization sanctioned by Morrowind law.

I'm sorry, but it's silly not to realize that the Chinese Tong is the origin of the names of the Tongs of Morrowind.

It's just as silly as saying that Daikatanas would still have their name if some devs didn't know what a katana was or that Dai means big.

Okay, but not to be too much of a jerk, does it really matter? Is it interesting? Perhaps. Does it change much of anything? No.

The entire Lore forum is dedicatred to the things that dont matter.

Besides, its the useless information that makes life fun

I completely agree with your thoughts on the matter, though i can't back it myself. It seems obvious to me that the names of those organizations were inspired by the Tongs you mention. They probably didn't follow their structure and probably weren't modeled after them, but i believe they were definitely an inspiration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tong_(organization) on wikipedia.

That's funny. It seems they are associated with Chinese who emigrated to America. From what you've all said in the thread, you made me think this was an organization that originated and flourished in China.

I think the organization you want is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triad_(underground_societies). Even I know about that one (thanks Chaos! Comics :goodjob: ).

Then again, you can find any similar underground societies all across the world, from various civilizations. Nothing particularly special about Tongs and Triads. :shrug:

Maybe, maybe not, can't say I know for sure.