Right.. Let me start off - yes this is abit based, I dont really like MK's writings (Namely the Fifth Era Love Letter and the Trial of Vivec) - but I discovered something yesterday, I quote:

The preceding interests more people. Loremaster Celarus, Gosleigh and Divayth Fyr of the Psijics among them, also worth noted is the presence of the Emperor Uriel Septim VII himself. He comes and speaks to the Council, "I speak here only because it is my duty to speak for Tamriel and the Empire. I have already placed my faith and sanction in the integrity and authority of the court. The court is a thing of the Law, The Empire is the Law, and the Law is Holy. I would only say... let no mortal man presume to judge this immortal Vivec. Such things as these eyes have seen -- such things as MY eyes have seen -- these things are weighed in the hands of the Gods. That Vivec has chosen to place himself in the hands of the Law pleases us, and does him honor. His acknowledgement and acceptance of the Law brings him within our countenance. We neither smile, nor frown, but say... let Justice and the Law be done."

So, that tells us Uriel Septim was present.. But how comes that he can be present if Vivec disappeared during the Oblivion Crisis? He dies just before Kvatch is attacked.

Now you may say: "Yeah, but they could've done it before he died."

And my replies:

• As mentioned above, this happened -during- the Oblivion Crisis.
  
• Azura is still fine and well - Her shrine quest lets no shadowfall on her whereabouts.

Now we can hope the Love Letter isn't a functional part of lore either.

Vivec's disappiarance was revealed during Oblivion Crisis.

I believe the trial is supposed to have taken place before the Oblivion Crisis.

As for Azura's shrine not lending any information on the matter interests me. Not that she would want anyone to know if she was humiliated like that.

Azura letterlly "explodes" - She'd be gone for quite some while, like Mehrunes Dagon after his defeat at the hands of Almalexia and Sotha Sil.

This seems likely. However, the only thing I have heard is that access to her realm is unattainable at this time. Not access to her shrine.

True that - but I still believe she is unable as well. Ah well, I dont like MK's writings, maybe it's just me.

Fortuitously, Michael Kirkbride is not writing for you.

I honestly don't see the point in this. Also, the Trial wasn't MK's, it was a group of devs RPing. Do you really want to doubt the people who make the lore?

Honestly? Yeah

But I bet people cant handle seeing the flaws, pity..

I can't take you that seriously when you start off saying you don't like MK's writing. It feels like you're trying too hard. Besides, Trial Of Vivec wasn't written by MK only. Ken Rolston played the role of Uriel.


1) It takes place in between the events of Morrowind and the events of Oblivion I think.
2) Azura is fine and well, yes. That's because making her choke on Vivec's spear until her avatar exploded only humiliated her. I also heard that she won't let people into her realm anymore, but I don't remember where I heard that.


It's ok to not believe in the obscure texts. They are made in such a way that they shouldn't contradict with the games, yet to be speculated of really happening at all.

Protip: Go and make something. Any ol' fantastically intricate thing.

Now, let it marinate for about a decade. Add more things to it. Get really involved with it. Roll your brain and creative efforts all around in it.

Don't worry that you're toiling in vain. Come January 16, 2021, I'll join the online community for its discussion, having attached myself to and become overprotective of one facet of your many-splendorous creation that you featured prominently about halfway through those years of thought-work, and I'll start using different bits of the whole against each other in an attempt to convince folk that you're tangential to the endeavor and thus dispensable.

It'll be great. As great as this thread and its impetus.

I believe the question should not be if the events happened, but rather how they happened.

True

I love you.

...Anyway. The devs participated in the RP, so we can only assume it is canon. As for Azura, she was banished. Just like what happened to Dagon at the end of the Oblivion Crisis. After a few decades of R&R, she'll be fine. Azura is a Daedric Prince, and therefore can't be killed. Banishing is about as good as you can get with the Daedra. OP, what do you have against MK? He's the greatest wordsmith since Shakespeare, how can you not like his writings?

I didn't think MK took part in the RP. Who did he play?

Vivec, among others I believe.

That doesn't surprise me.

He can't stand weirdness in his fantasy worlds, strange as that may seem.

Considering Haskill can stand in for Sheogorath at his shrine whilst he's away, possibly one of Azura's minions with a similar voice answered the calls to make it look like she was home? It would be very unlike Azura to let on that one of her plans had gone awry.

Tsk, you can not see beyound your own opinions - And by no means, I am not trolling - I am merely raising my opinion in an aggressive way, which people can't handle.

Mehyes. sad-

Wait a moment.. I cant see beyound my own opinion either - Oh yeah, it, has, good, points.

I'm not sure what your point is. Usually one who acts out in aggression is not surprised when they are met with hostility and/or aggression.

As for MK's writings, what is it that you feel is flawed? The Trial of Vivec? Which has already been pointed out that it does not contradict anything from Morrowind or Oblivion.

Then we say that, although I still have my most sincere doubts..

The Trial of Vivec went down before Oblivion was even announced.

It was an RP which involved several developers, not just MK.

Finally, it was due to a small error that http://www.imperial-library.info/content/imperial-census-daedra-lords wasn't included in the most recent Pocket Guide, which references the Trial:



And in case you doubt the authenticity of that text, since it wasn't officially published, note that the most recent http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-edition-void-oblivion explicitly references it:





Finally, it's your perogative not to like MKs writing style, but he's one of the primary reasons for the uniqueness of TES lore.

You haven't actually illustrated any flaws in the Trial or our fandom of it yet. You've exposed a few gaps in your own understanding of the Trial but that's about it. Most glaringly you seem to be under the impression that the Trial took place near or during the events of Oblivion, when it was posted on the forums quite some time before that game was even released.


In all honesty you remind me of the kind of person who would somehow manage to become the host of a nationally syndicated television program and not understand how tides work, or a singer who dresses as a clown and attempts to nail people who believe in science by saying nobody knows how magnets work. In fact you're a lot like Jimbob from work who proudly proclaims to me "If we come from monkeys why they still be monkeys?" These people are mouth-breathers.

Protip: Don't be a mouth-breather. You're too good for that. We're worried about you and this is an intervention.

Nothing against Arclath.. But this is excellent.

I'm taking a firm stand against mouth-breathers here and now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_moderator#Moderator may banish me from these lands for the fifth time, but much like Gordhaur the Shaper I will find a way to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az_7U0-cK0.

We only found out about Vivec's disappearance during the Crisis because that is when he failed to appear. People prayed, he didn't help, eventually someone must have taken a look inside that locked palace of his and seen that he is missing. Seeing how he spent most his time meditating, he could have disappeared right after Ur was defeated and no-one would know.

The important characters of the Trial were played by Michael Kirkbride, Ted Peterson, Ken Rolston, Kurt Khulman, GT Noonan. Most (all?) of them were working on Oblivion at the time.

As for the Loveletter, the creation of the Ingenium likely prevented that particular timeline from happening. However, elements of it (the Scathing Bay, for one) appear in the official lore of the Infernal City.

If I may ask, what is your opinion on http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-varieties-faith-empire and the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-monomyth? Because those are both MK and are the foundation of everything we know about TES mythology.

[edit]Also, I notice you're quoting the summary. I suggest you sit down and read the actual text, as it is far more interesting and poetic than any summary can hope to convey.