I just want to get an idea where the community stands on the issue of Maps and Compass...

If you guys vote enough, I may even post my idea for how the map and compass would work which I think would actually make every single user happy (or at least less pissed off).

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1095751-maps-and-wayfinding/ :ahhh:

I would like those tickmarks for things like detect life/detect enchantment/detect key(If they bring it back)

Dislike quest markers, and undiscovered locations showing up.

That is rather Ultimate, good job.

P.S.- I hate quest markers! Down with quest markers! :dmc:

At the very least, Quest Markers should toggle on/off.

Bethesda will put the compass in if they want to regardless of these polls. :rolleyes:

I don't think that was unclear to anyone. Why mention it?

I think discovering places in Morrowind was a fair approach. The only thing i'd change on it is once you discover a place, it is marked on your world map, so you don't have figure out where it is again. I also don't want to see undiscovered areas come up on my map. Whats the sense of exploring if know whats out there, you know?

And i agree with this post

I long for a system that correctly combines options, information gathering, and ease of use.

My design would work like this:
Step 1.
You get a quest to retrieve the Sword of Uberl-eet from the Shrine of Canno-fined. Your quest giver does not know the location but does know that it is south of town and before the mountains. They suggest that someone at the Porky Pony Inn down the road may know more. At this point you get a large "area marker" that covers the entire region south of town but before the mountain on your map as well as a smaller area map down the road where the inn could be. You can choose one of two options now:

Step 2.
Option A - You go straight south and wander around in the "area marker" until you find the Shrine.

Option B - You go down the road and find the Inn. Asking around you get slightly better directions as well as the name of the guy who has been there before who can tell you exactly where it is. Now your "area" marker is much smaller (but still not precise) and you get two more options.

Step 3.
Option A - You go straight south and wander around the smaller "area marker" until you find the Shrine.

Option B - You hunt down the guy who has been there before and he marks the location for you.


At no point in time would there be a "flag" pointing out the direction you need to go, as that is too simplistic and unnecessary considering you have a map. The location icon (the brown and tan things from OB) only appear for locations that you have been too and locations you have been given specific directions to but have not yet arrived there (i.e. wandering around in the wilderness will not cause the tan icons to let you know that there is a ruin two mountain peaks over unless you already know it is there). Locations that are a destination for a quest could have a border added to their icon so that when you get near to a known location you can head straight for it.

I strongly believe that a system that allows free-range exploration as well as specific directions can be achieved as long as Bethesda is willing to spend the time building it. We should never have a "toggle" for features as that means that the developer did not spend enough time making either system work well.

So these area effect markers, they would be made specific to the region or would they be simple transparent circles on the map?

I had envisioned something similar to a transparent overlay that covers the entire area covered by the vague directions given by NPCs who are not familiar with the area. The problem with a circle is that people will assume that the location is at the exact center when the location could be anywhere in the "area".

I love the idea of buying maps - so that the majority of the time you're going in to areas such as dungeons/caves/ruins etc. absolutely blind (no map filling itself in as you go like OB), but there may be an option on certain quests to buy a map of the area. I always meant to deliberately play an OB ruin blind but was inevitably tempted to sneak a peek to check I was on the right track

I would like undiscovered locations to show up when I get nearby, the important word being nearby, not 1km in every direction. It helped you not just walk right past what you were looking for.

I like that feeling of finding your dungeon after walking right past it a bunch of times first, starting to get frustrated, wondering if the directions you got were completely wrong or if the dungeon glitched out of existence.
Then you just stumble across it and feel like and idiot.

I like when the game humbles me like that.

Just happened in Daggerfall not too long ago. Stupid green hill with a little door, next to a bunch of other stupid green hills. lol

I don't, because these games are so big, I could continue 10km up the coast from where I would find it, that kind of ruins it for me, I could literally waste hours. Then if I finally find it, I would be mad and frustrated, so the joy or value of finding whatever was inside would be ruined because the cost/quality ratio would be skewed heavily towards the cost. In daggerfall it was acceptable because you knew 100% that when you arrived, the entrance would not be very far away.

Not that I don't understand where you're coming from, that's why I want nearby to be actually nearby, and not like oblivion. Alternately it would show up when you were literally looking at what you searched for, this would be a representation of your character seeing it, this way it wouldn't rely on your own player perception skills.

Hmm..

What would you say if it happened less. For example, if and only if, your thing is marked on your map, it's also marked on your compass.

And in general, less dungeons are hidden by the wilderness. Generally, the ones that are supposed to be hidden, like a secret cult shrine or necromancer's den.

I would be more pleased, to add to your example, I would like it if it was only marked on the compass when I get in the vicinity. We could also tie it to a perception skill, low skill = low detection vicinity, high skill = high detection vicinity.

Edit: I have no idea how you would train that though.

I feel like buying a map for the inside of a dungeon would be more of a blueprint.

Anyways, if map purchasing would be incorporated, i'd hope it'd simply point out a few noticeable land marks, and hopefully it would leave some secrets in the region for the player to still discover.

I really could not stand the tick marks for enemies...

What if the tick marks for enemies only appeared if you cast a "Detect Life" spell? I think that would be better than the purple haze...

I'd like that - the amount of times I cast a detect life spell and my own purple haze would show up, completely freaking me out thinking someone had managed to sneak up behind me! :blush2:

I also didn't like the fact that it was just ugly to see everyone glowing like a cartoon ghost... I NEVER used any of the constant effect Detect Life items because of this.

One thing that was unmentioned is I'd like Detect Life/Key/Enchantment to have an option to show up as a waypoint (think nav-markers from Halo) as red (enemy), blue (enchantment) or yellow (key) arrows on your main screen and/or as like colored dots on your compass as in Fallout 3.

In all honesty, I know it was never in a TES game, I like the idea of Perception as an addition to the STR/INT/WIL/SPD/AGL/PER/END/LCK system (could be abbreviated as PRC, if it matters) could be fun. It could govern some more survival/roleplaying based skills like Tracking (good for giving forewarning of dangerous enemies nearby/helping track down NPCs you're searching for), Sense Motive and could contribute to, along with Luck and another stat based on the attack avoided, a sort of Critical Save that'd allow you to dodge sneak attacks (paired with Sneak - I'd love to see assassins try to pick you off if you piss off certain factions), arrows (paired with Speed and/or marksman) or auto-roll to dodge activated traps (paired with Agility).

Sense Motive, for lack of a better name for it, could operate much like Eagle Vision in Assassin's Creed - differentiating Friendly/Neutral, Hostile (attack on sight), Aggressive (attacks if stolen from, or if sees other Friendly/Neutral attacked) and maybe Quest-Giving NPCs when activated. Could be identified with Green, Red, Yellow and Blue, respectively.

I got off on a tangent there, I fear, but I had an idea and wanted to share, lol.

Actually, both of those are in the poll... I also had that idea at one point so I included it.