[Noraima Vega]

Well, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1094498-the-ultimate-bosmer-thread/ got more attention than the Nords, but weren't quite as popular as the Argonians.

The community seemed rather unanimous though. We want little, sharp-toothed, creepy, ankle-biting cannibals.

As for Orcs, they haven't changed much besides going from hostile baddies to citizens of the empire and receiving a deeper history. But, their appearance has remained the same throughout the eras. Green people with pig snouts and boar-like tusks. Except that there were no tusks in Daggerfall, and Morrowind added a couple of unique, little features. The different looks can be chalked up to art style and graphics, in my opinion, because they all represent the same thing. Human head, pig snout.

For the smaller features, some of the orc females in Morrowind had these sort of decorative ridges on their foreheads cheeks and chins. Not all of them, though.

Also, in Morrowind, all the hairstyles were almost exclusively ponytails, for both genders, except for like two, and they had really over-exaggerated baggy eyes. They always looked really tired.

My very first character in Morrowind was an orc. He got owned by the Urshilaku burial caverns a bunch of times, so I gave up and made a Redguard. What do you think of the Orcs?

Here's a little http://www.uesp.net/dagger/monsters/morcs.jpg Orc from uesp.

[Jynx Anthropic]

Keep them playable, they're fun. But don't make them non-humanoid or anything, they're mer for god's sake. I don't really care about the ridges, but I'm gonna be sixist here and say I'd like them to be male only. I prefer my women to be smooth and seOH WELL YOU GET IT DON'T YOU. Also, keep the tusks. They're awesome, and the face paints should both be buyable in game and available in CharGen. Orcs should also be big and bulky, but so should Nords.

I never really played as an Orc in game, but I did interact with them, and they were visually the most interesting. Yes, the other Mer had different skin tones and such, but apart from the beast races Orcs were the most, well, "different". Green skin and tusks? Hell yeah!

[Nymph]

The only race that should come close to the strength and hieght of an Orc is a nord.

[Meghan Terry]

The only races that are already stronger than an orc are the two combat races, nord and redguard, which makes sense. Orcs are just better at taking blows, and have amazing will power.

[Cheryl Rice]

I like the Orsimer, and I think they should stay.

Honestly, I never noticed the "Klingon-esque skin ridges" in Morrowind. I voted "meh".

As for tusks, they look like they would be pretty impractical, but they also look really cool. I voted yes.

Face-paint and tattoos are a must, I think. I'm not actually sure how beneficial it would be for players to be able to change their appearance after character creation. To me, this always seems like a useless gimmick that bogs down gameplay and storytelling. If they can do it in a more interesting way than Fable, or Saints Row...well, meh, I don't really care.

I voted yes for the bulkier bodies thing, but that's more of a reflection of my desire to see more than one body type in the game. It's not really that important to me in the grand scheme of things, although it does break immersion for me when my 70 year old sorcerer is running around with his 23 year old body that's been perfectly sculpted in a gym, with the aid of the best personal trainers that Hollywood has to offer. Natural looking bodies would be much better, if I was a sword wielding adventurer, I don't think I would be doing aerobics and lifting dumbbells all the time (or whatever people do to look like that). I would be building strength and stamina by running around, climbing things, swimming, and fighting, maybe building bridges or making swords in my spare time.

Well that was a bit of a rant, I hope the format doesn't kill your eyes, but I'm feeling too lazy to edit right now.

[Shannon Marie Jones]

Keep them playable, they're fun. But don't make them non-humanoid or anything, they're mer for god's sake. I don't really care about the ridges, but I'm gonna be sixist here and say I'd like them to be male only. I prefer my women to be smooth and seOH WELL YOU GET IT DON'T YOU. Also, keep the tusks. They're awesome, and the face paints should both be buyable in game and available in CharGen. Orcs should also be big and bulky, but so should Nords.

I never really played as an Orc in game, but I did interact with them, and they were visually the most interesting. Yes, the other Mer had different skin tones and such, but apart from the beast races Orcs were the most, well, "different". Green skin and tusks? Hell yeah!

Orc females have to stay. One of my favourites to play.

Keep the green skin and tusks. Other than that I'd like them to vary in appearance from almost Mer to extremely grotesque. Except in Orsimer I doubt theres been many large orc societies so limited breeding stock might mean many local variations in appearance. Thats my theory anyway (and it allows me to play a "pretty" if green and tusked orc female).

Build-wise not as tall as Nords or Altmer but stockier. Taller and stockier than Redguards who I've always seen as lean and muscular

[Ezekiel Macallister]

Orcs were a race created by Tolkein for his world of Middle-Earth, which have since been shamelessly stolen and inserted into any subsequent fantasy world whose author's have little to no imagination. Having Orcs in a game is like having bearded Dwarves with Scottish accents. It reeks of unoriginality.

I vote Bethesda dump them, retcon the race like Cyrodiil's jungles, and inject some more originality into the world. They have the imagination to create a unique species - we've seen it with the myriad of Khajiit species, and the Argonian tribes. If they insist on keeping the Orcs, then at least do something original with them rather than use them as the stereotypical low intelligence brutes that they appear as in Morrowind and Oblivion.

Lineage 2 Orcs were presented as shamanistic tribal warriors, and had a very distinct art style:
http://www.lineage2.com/images/knowledge/screenshots/sshotOrc05.jpg
http://i.data.bg/07/05/22/382994_orig.jpg
http://community.imaginefx.com/forums/storage/7/217318/Ulna%20Orc%20warrior.jpg
http://l2inside.org/l2/weap_creator.php?item=192

To summarise: Leave the unoriginality in races to Bioware's Dragon Age. Every race in TES is culturally unique so far except for the Orcs and Nords. Let's get them up to speed.

[Imy Davies]

They should remain as they were in Morrowind
There really isn't a klingon-esque skin ridge on orcs in MW, so I voted NO
Definitely keep the tusks
definitely have the tattoos
As for size, they should have a similar build to nords.

[carla]

every elven race as a counterpart:

Altmer: Breton
Bosmer: Imperial
Dunmer: argonian (ironicly)
khajiit: redguard
Orsimer: Nord

None of the other's look anything like their counterparts. I want the orcs to be short-ish but massive and muscular. basicly between a dunmer and a breton in hight, much thicker than the nords, with elven ears and eyes, but disgusting green with tusks and tatoes. MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE [censored] ELVES!!!!!!

[Rozlyn Robinson]

MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE [censored] ELVES!!!!!!

Are TES Orcs derived from Elves? The 'mer' in Orsimer would certainly suggest so, but I haven't looked into Orc lore. If so, I completely agree with you.

Just because you're going with the 'Orc' tagline for the race, doesn't mean they have to look like generic Tolkein-fantasy Orcs. Use your imagination Bethesda! This happens in so many books and games... it's why I wish people would stop stealing the damn things. At least add your own style to the beasts!

[Bad News Rogers]

Are TES Orcs derived from Elves? The 'mer' in Orsimer would certainly suggest so, but I haven't looked into Orc lore.

Ah ha! Well, let me enlighten you for a bit.

*Ahem* Here is the short story of how the orcs became the orcs

During the merithic era, there was a group of aldmer (proto-mer, altmer are the most likely to resemble them) who followed the hero god, Trinimac, more closely than all the other aldmer pantheon, even Arui-El (mer version of Akatosh). One day, the prophet Veloth, set out with the Chimer (aldmer who abandoned the merish way of thinking) to move out east. When news of this was heard, Trinimac set out to stop this exodus. However, Boethia swallowed Trinimac and spoke with his voice. By doing so, it prevented those aldmer who followed Trinimac from being able to stop the exodus by massively demoralizing them. When Boethia was done, he pooped out Trinimac, who then became the daedric prince known as Malacath. Seeing their god cast down, those aldmer too transformed into a race of pariahs and outcasts, like the sphere the prince is of. In fact, the name "orsimer" means "pariah folk."

Now as you can see, the orsimer, or commonly known as orcs, are a race of corrupted elves. They are corrupt, because their god became corrupt, and since then became a race whose image is pretty much opposite of that of the altmer. Instead of being tall, golden, elegant, beautiful, and very long lived, the orsimer are brutish, ugly, and outwardly aggressive, and live very short natural lives (~60 I believe, which is young for all other races).

As for their history after, it has been one of constant war, either from the redguards, the bretons, or Tiber Septim. They are people whose very lives were drenched in blood, and constantly outcasts.

As such, this is why orcs are to look brutal and ugly. They are not to resemble their mer brethren, because they are a race of complete outcasts who have been physically corrupted.

By the way, http://www.imperial-library.info/races/mw_orc.gif

[stevie trent]

i play an orc in each game, they are mer. They were the strongest, perhaps through selective breeding, perhaps individuals personal efforts. regardless, they are cursed, like dunmer, i would like to see them look more like mer.

[Prisca Lacour]

Orcs aren't selective breeders, that is the altmer. Hell, they'll kill baby their own babies if it is imperfect in anyway.

[Baby K(:]

Orcs were a race created by Tolkein for his world of Middle-Earth, which have since been shamelessly stolen and inserted into any subsequent fantasy world whose author's have little to no imagination. Having Orcs in a game is like having bearded Dwarves with Scottish accents. It reeks of unoriginality.

I vote Bethesda dump them, retcon the race like Cyrodiil's jungles, and inject some more originality into the world. They have the imagination to create a unique species - we've seen it with the myriad of Khajiit species, and the Argonian tribes. If they insist on keeping the Orcs, then at least do something original with them rather than use them as the stereotypical low intelligence brutes that they appear as in Morrowind and Oblivion.

Lineage 2 Orcs were presented as shamanistic tribal warriors, and had a very distinct art style:
http://www.lineage2.com/images/knowledge/screenshots/sshotOrc05.jpg
http://i.data.bg/07/05/22/382994_orig.jpg
http://community.imaginefx.com/forums/storage/7/217318/Ulna%20Orc%20warrior.jpg
http://l2inside.org/l2/weap_creator.php?item=192

To summarise: Leave the unoriginality in races to Bioware's Dragon Age. Every race in TES is culturally unique so far except for the Orcs and Nords. Let's get them up to speed.

Bethesda's Orcs are completely unlike Tolkien's Orcs. http://i48.tinypic.com/m8jmdd.jpg

Just because they're called Orcs doesn't mean they're unoriginal. Tolkien's Orcs were mindless minions of Sauron, Bethesda's Orcs are pretty much a tribe with more advanced (relatively speaking) technology, and some of the finest craftsmen when it comes to armor, e.g. not low intelligence. I never had the impression that's how they appeared, to the contrary. (Though to be fair IIRC Tolkien's Orcs were also elves first.)

[Beast Attire]

The only similarities orcs in tolkien and TES have is they are corrupted elves, though one is just straight up evil, while the other are outcasts and pariahs. Other than that, it's orc, which is actually the short form of orsimer, while Tolkien's is just orc.

[JD FROM HELL]

Bethesda's Orcs are completely unlike Tolkien's Orcs. http://i48.tinypic.com/m8jmdd.jpg

I actually think that those Orcs look...um...quite similar.

[Mari martnez Martinez]

Bethesda's Orcs are completely unlike Tolkien's Orcs. http://i48.tinypic.com/m8jmdd.jpg

Well, that's not Tolkien's Orc, it's Jackson's.

But, I agree with dr. booker, pretty similar to me.

[Vickytoria Vasquez]

I said they should be playable green pig-looking folk, with the tusks of course, with tattoos available in character creation and after, and should be a bit larger than the other races.

I think their culture should be fleshed out, too. Not changed, but explored a bit more.

And yeah, well since TES started as a D&D campaign which is based on Tolkien, it's okay to have a few similarities. Corrupted elves, sure. Although, reading the Silmarillion, not all Orcs are evil. That big punch-up against Morgoth at the end of the First Age had warriors of 'every race" fighting alongside the Valar. Oh, that's another similarity, keep treating them as lower than dirt and they will kick your ass (actually, I think everyone everywhere has that somewhat).

Er, anyways, if you couldn't tell I'm on a Tolkien binge. But yes! Nords and Orcs both need a culture-fleshing, so that's another reason to have it be in Skyrim!

[Vivien]

They should be grotesque: hunch-backed, green-brown, oily-skinned, greasey-haired, with legs like Morrowind's beast races, and two tusks protruding from a lower jaw with a humongous underbite. Then, a limp, because one leg's considerably shorter than the other. Pigs' snoots are good. This way, when I see an orc, I'm not looking at http://www.songfacts.com/songimages/1834.jpg, but an orc. They can still be brutes, but seeing one in the regalia of high-society ought to be an experience to laugh about.

Both in TES and Tolkien, the orcs are corrupted elves. Their origin story's just more of a joke, in TES, which is why it would be fitting to make their race more of a joke.

[Natalie J Webster]

A little extreme, Subadim, but a line of thinking I'd say is correct. They are the biggest joke of all the races, as for good reason; the orcs are children of a turd. They're not some proud misunderstood race whose actually pretty. They're little poop nuggets, outcasts, pariahs, perfect aldmer corrupted into the shame of all mer.

[Angela Woods]

What ridges in Morrowind? I would however like Orc skin color to be more brownish than green in the next game.

[phillip crookes]

I've always viewed the Orcs in TES as the anolog to the Star Trek: Next Gen Klingons.

So, yeah, like how Morrowind did it, with ridges, tusks, and tattoos.

However, I don't really want to see them hugely bulky like the orcs in Warcraft. Those are just a bit silly. These are Orsimer, they are related to the Aldmer. Maybe their culture encourages more exercise and muscle building activities than lazy Imperials (anyone else remember the huge number of meals Imperials ate in A Dance in the Fire? Something like eight or ten).

[Stefanny Cardona]

Orcs should definitely remain playable - I think what's made them so unremarkable and unpopular among players is just how homogenized they've become in Oblivion. In Morrowind, they always had pony tails, tatoos, and intricate equipment that showed some degree of Asian influence. In many ways, they reminded me both in mannerisms and in combat prowess of the Samurai in feudal Japan. In Oblivion, they're pretty generic and effectively are just green Nords. Bethesda should definitely make them a bit more radical again in time for TES V if they want people to actually play as them.

To a lesser extent, I feel this way about Nords as well. Most of these complaints are due to the crappy FaceGen system, but I really missed having braided hair, tatoos, imposing beards, and the like in Oblivion. Not to mention they all sounded like Fred Flintstone.

[Lew.p]

A little extreme, Subadim, but a line of thinking I'd say is correct. They are the biggest joke of all the races, as for good reason; the orcs are children of a turd. They're not some proud misunderstood race whose actually pretty. They're little poop nuggets, outcasts, pariahs, perfect aldmer corrupted into the shame of all mer.

whick Is why they should look like Altmer, exept thicker with ugly faces and tusks, shorter, and green. and not a 'fake grass' green but an 'I just puked guano' green.

[Maya Maya]

whick Is why they should look like Altmer, exept thicker with ugly faces and tusks, shorter, and green. and not a 'fake grass' green but an 'I just puked guano' green.

Noo...they shouldn't look like altmer at all. Altmer really try hard to retain purity and looks, while orsimer are nothing more than defiled children of poop. In the physical sense, the two should be really opposite of each other. Hell, the only way to really recognize them as mer is their ears.