Ever wonder which faction has the strongest soldier? I don't mean lore-based, where it's Centurions and Paladins and Veteran Rangers clearly on top, but gameplay wise; which faction would produce the strongest player character if you tried to make characters that embodied that factions characteristics, habits and culture?
I've wondered this, and thus I've recently started a project to find out the answer to that question. I'm going to be doing a quick playthrough with each faction (or until I get bored ), trying to get a feel for how strong and effective the character is, then report my findings here, just in case people are curious.

The process is simple: Each faction will be evaluated, examined and looked at to see what skills seem to be most important for that faction. For instance, the Followers of the Apocalypse would be good at medicine and science, whereas the NCR would be good with guns and explosives. The skills that the faction specializes in would reflect onto their SPECIAL. Again, as an example, the Followers being good at Medicine and Science would raise their Intelligence, whereas the NCR would see a boost to their perception and Agility thanks to guns and explosives. STR is often governed by providing the character with the minimal STR neccesary to use all weapons utilized by that faction at optimal performance, UNLESS the faction is explicitly known for being exceptionally strong or specializes in Melee weapons (Great Khans and the Legion), or possibly if the faction has SPECIAL points to spare. Luck would be decided by the position of power that the faction finds itself in (or a lack thereof) and in the NCR's case, their luck on the Strip. For example, a White Glove Society member (supporting Mr. House) would have high luck due to Mr. House's luck of needing BOTH the NCR and Legion present to buy time to carry out his plans, whereas the NCR and Legion would see a drop in their luck because that same situation is unfortunate for them. Charisma would be decided by the faction's political relations, the amount of speech checks involved with that faction and by the faction's members' charisma. As an example, this would mean the Kings and the Followers would have a nice Charisma score whereas the BoS and the Powder Gangers would have a terrible one.
Perks will be chosen to reflect a faction's talents and skills. Reflecting skills is pretty straightforward (the NCR has good guns skill so they get gun-based perks) whereas reflecting the culture may be different. The White Gloves and the Legion would utilize cannibalism because it can be witnessed within their culture, whereas although the Great Khans may have the science proficiency to unlock Math Wrath, their specialty is in chemistry, and therefore they may or may not get the Math Wrath perk, likely depending on if there are other more-suiting perks available for them. The final level 50 karma perks will be chosen based on how the game treats the faction's karma levels. The NCR would therefore get the good karma perk, the Legion would get the bad karma perk, whereas a group like the BoS or Boomers would unlock the neutral karma perk.

Traits are decided simply by whichever traits reflect the faction best, though of course this is subjective to an extent, but I'm trying to pick ones that are agreeable. Logan's Loophole will be automatically attached to very minor factions, such as the White Glove Society, the Kings and the Powder Gangers. For the moment, (still haven't decided) the Great Khans and the Followers will be treated as major factions and not subject to Logan's Loophole, both because the major factions treat them as one (they seek alliances with them) and because both seem to have more than 15 perks available that would suit them.


Cultural preferences and limitations will apply. The Legion would be restricted from using drugs, whereas the Boomers, when it comes to guns, would basically be restricted to assault carbines, marksman carbines and their unique variants. Why? Because these are the only guns we ever witness the Boomers utilizing. Like Joshua Graham says, each "tribe" has it's own weapons and style, and though a Legionaire may be capable of using a minigun, that doesn't mean they actually DO utilize it. Caesar chooses to equip his Legionaires with other weapons OR they themselves prefer those weapons. This would mean that only the Legion and NCR characters would have access to the mighty Anti-Materiel Rifle and Brush Gun (and unique variants), whereas the BoS is practically the only faction to utilize the YCS/186 Gauss Rifle. Weapons added by the add-ons will be treated as variants of their closest Vanilla NV counterparts, so for instance, the .45 pistols would be treated as 9mm pistols (therefore useable by Powder Gangers and the NCR), the K9000 is treated like a minigun, the Automatic Rifle like a LMG, etc etc. Difficult-to-categorize weapons like the Holorifle....not sure yet. Gotta think on that one, though it would likely be useable for any faction that uses energy rifles (NCR, Legion, BoS, Powder Gangers) or for any faction that specializes in Energy weapons (BoS, FoTA).
This also means that some DLCs will be completed with this in mind. Honest hearts on a Legion playthrough will be....very short, whereas an NCR soldier may kill Dog and Christine in Dead Money; Dog because the NCR doesn't respect super mutants, Christine because she's BoS.

Finally, each character is a pure playthrough. For example, this means the NCR does WHATEVER neccesary to gain NCR rep. The survivors of Vault 34 be damned, the Great Khan drug delivery must be reported to Leutenant Hayes, the BoS may NOT be allied with, Goodsprings WILL be destroyed in order to gain access to the NCRCF and the Powder Ganger quests WILL be completed in order to gain the opportunity to double-cross them for NCR rep, etc etc etc. Companions chosen are also relative to the faction and the culture. Only the Great Khans and Followers seem knowledgeable about Super Mutants enough to tolerate a Super Mutant companion (Lily), some factions may not tolerate a Ghoul companion (BoS, Legion), and other factions may have access to a companion, but no access to a way of completing their quest. (maybe the Powder Gangers could unlock Raul, but would have no way of peacefully talking to the NCR citizens neccesary to complete Raul's quest). I'm also trying to avoid doing things like saying the Kings support the NCR, and therefore may travel with Boone, but rather I'm keeping Boone/Veronica/Arcade/ED-E specific to the factions that are DIRECTLY involved with them. Factions also support whichever faction provides them with the best ending. For example, the Followers may voice doubts about the NCR in-game, but my Followers character would support the NCR because that provides the Followers with their ideal ending, whereas their preferred Indy ending isn't all it's cracked up to be for them.




Having said that, I recently completed my first faction playthrough, having unlocked every item useable by that faction and having reached level 50. Here's my evaluation of the NCR:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/mr.people/ScreenShot0-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/mr.people/ScreenShot0-1.jpg

SPECIAL

6 Strength (chosen because the NCR utilizes the Minigun and is also proficient enough with weaponry to unlock the Weapon Handling Perk. This combined with the OWB perk effectively gives them a Str of 10 neccesary to utilize all weaponry used by the NCR)
10 Perception (chosen both because of their proficiency with Explosives and because of the stress on their culture revolving around "death from afar" and having good snipers)
6 Endurance (chosen because the NCR Rangers have a unique perk called "Toughness." To unlock the player version of Toughness, one needs five strength. The 6th point comes from the Lonesome Road, placed there simply for it's strategic value (unlocks another implant))
6 Charisma (chosen because the NCR is fairly competent with public relations)
5 Intelligence (chosen because the NCR is neither incredibly bright, nor can they be called stupid)
10 Agility (chosen for their unmatched proficiency with guns)
3 Luck (chosen for their lack of luck on the Strip, and lack of luck with their position in the Mojave

100 Skills

Guns
Explosives
Repair
Merchantile
Speech
Sneak
Lockpick
Science
Medicine

Traits

Trigger Discipline (chosen to reflect the accuracy of their snipers and soldiers)
Built to Destroy (chosen to reflect political commentary that their gear is in disrepair, comments by the Legion that reliance on such breakable gear is unreliable, and to bump up the character's crit rate to reflect that of an NCR sniper, seeing as the 1st Recon Beret provides crit)


Perks

Rapid Reload
Gunslinger
Commando
Sniper
Hobbler
Center of Mass
Grunt
Quick Draw
Cowboy
Shotgun Surgeon
And Stay Back! (both shotgun perks chosen because the NCR caravans are one of the few groups to utilize shotguns)
Hand Loader (chosen because the Gun Runners are "practically a part of the NCR military" and they themselves are capable of producing powerful ammo types)
Finesse (chosen to reflect the crit rate exhibited by the NCR snipers)
Run 'n' Gun
Toughness
Toughness (both ranks of Toughness chosen to reflect the unique perk used by the NCR Ranger Veterans)
Concentrated Fire (the NCR does use energy weapons that require a high enough energy weapons skill to unlock this perk)
Action Boy
Action Boy
Nerves of Steel
Pack Rat
Strong Back (both weight perks chosen to reflect the neccesity of these by NCR caravans)
Weapon Handling
Sneering Imperialist (chosen because the only two major factions this perk increases damage against are the Great Khans and Fiends; the NCR is the only faction to oppose both. And yes, I did use the perk to complete Honest Hearts with a vengeful Graham. )
Thought You Died (chosen because NCR endings heavily imply the NCR is the "good" faction)


Notable weaponry useable by the NCR

Basically every gun. Lucky, ALSID, Gobi Sniper Campaign Rifle, GRA AMR, Medicine Stick, Bozar, K9000, CZ57 Avenger, Survivalist's Rifle, All-American, Hunting Revolver (GRA), Trail Carbines, Cowboy Repeaters, Riot Shotguns, 12.7 mm pistol and variants (Lil' Devil and That Gun), Vance's 9mm SMG, etc etc etc etc.... It should be noted that the way I'm playing the character, it does NOT have access to the Ranger Sequoia or Maria DIRECTLY. The NCR never had knowledge of the Platinum chip AND it's possible to play the NCR without ever confronting Benny, so I did. The Ranger Sequoia is used by the NCR, but in order to obtain one you'd have to kill an NCR veteran or let Hanlon die, both of which gain NCR negative rep or a bad NCR ending, which is taboo by my rules. If I found a way to rob Benny or a Vet with the Sequoia happened to die, however, I could obtain and use them.
Also worth mentioning is I stayed away from Assault Carbines and 12.7mm submachine guns because I never actually witnessed a citizen of the NCR using these two.

Aside from guns....hand grenades, frag mines, Chance's Knife and Blood-nap are a couple weapons utilized by the NCR. I also used Grenade rifles like Thump-Thump for a time, both because the Grunt perk and because the weapon is IMPLIED to be used by the NCR (or you could count Happy Trails as a part of the NCR), but then opted not to simply because no NCR soldiers actually use it in the Mojave.

As for which of those weapons I chose to carry? ALSID, Medicine Stick, Bozar, Survivalist's Rifle, Riot Shotgun and the GRA AMR, though the Bozar and the Survivalist's Rifle were carried mostly because they embodied the NCR, imo. I could survived without the SR and the CZ57 Avenger might be a superior option to the Bozar.


End-game armor

Elite Riot Armor, Elite Riot helmet and 1st Recon beret (yes, both can be equipped. The beret is a hat, the helmet counts as eyewear)


Stats:

HP: 565
DT: 40.4 (this massive number is thanks to two levels of Toughness, the Elite Riot armor and the Sub-dermal implant)
Crit Rate: 21%
Action Points: 125
Carry weight: 280
Potential DPH (as seen in Pip-Boy, Hollow point not being included in this category): 239 (GRA AMR with Explosive rounds and Lonesome Road perk)
Potential DPS (as seen in Pip-Boy, Hollow point not being included in this category): 639 (CZ57 Avenger with custom load rounds and Lonesome Road perk)
Companions available: Boone, Cass, Raul, Rex (peaceful Boone to reflect NCR's regret over Bitter Springs, peaceful Cass to meet the best possible NCR ending quota, Gunslinger Raul to match the fact that the NCR NPCs involved with his quest are fighters, Raul with Rey's brain since the other two options come from enemy factions)
Notable restrictions: Can use Turbo, but doesn't have access to the recipe due to poor relations with the Great Khans
Notable strengths: Has access to every chemical, can knock down enemies with shotguns AND has access to the Riot Shotgun. Can one-shot most enemies with a sniper shot.




Pros:

-Highest possible VATS guns accuracy in the game. VATS is finally useable. With all the accuracy perks, the NCR soldier basically has a free kill button, with VATS typically succeeding 95% of the time. Crouching with the AMR loaded with custom-load ammo, you can get up to 75% accuracy even at the maximum possible VATS range. ALSID is particularly useful in VATS due to it's poor ironsights in free-range shooting, and because you can unload a full clip with one round of Vats. That combined with Concentrated Fire usually means that by the end of the clip, you have 95% accuracy. ALSID also highly benefits from the increased crit rate of VATS.
-Insane Damage Threshold. For having a very modest Endurance, the NCR has a surprisingly high DT.
-Very high HP. Again, for such a modest Endurance, the NCR soldier has very high HP.
-High damage output. The NCR has access to every single damage amplifier available to guns, meaning their overall damage output is exceptional. This is the highest you'll ever hit with a guns character, the only possible improvement being 7% more crit and 100% more crit damage
-Night-vision
-Cannot be crit on.
-Has the diplomatic skills capable to pass on a lot of tough fights
-Access to practically every single end-game gun.
-Very nice Crit rate, only 7% below the highest possible.
-Highest possible perception without ED-E
-Fastest possible reload time


Cons:

-While the free VATS usage is nice, it feels very....limited. A Legion character gains new abilities with their melee and unarmed attacks, whereas an NCR soldier only gains....more accuracy. Even at it's prime, you'd much rather manually aim for the head of that deathclaw at a much greater distance than VATS is capable of, rather than rely on the 75% once the deathclaw is within a distance where a missed VATS shot means you'll have ~2 seconds to react once you leave VATS. VATS is more of a convenience, allowing you to drop all those Viper gang members in 4 second flat, instead of manually chasing them around for 15. The result is that the character has about 15-20 perks that seem lackluster or unneccesary compared to others.




My Overall Grade: A-/B+

While the NCR soldier definitely feels very strong with very high damage and defensive capabilities, it STILL feels like missed potential. Don't get me wrong, it's very strong, but yet I feel it's perks fall far behind the ones obtained by other factions. While the Legion can't be knocked down, runs fast and can kill ANYTHING with a single punch and the Boomers and BoS are dealing outrageous damage with explosives and/or crits, the NCR soldier is busy learning how to master a failed system that only serves as a bonus rather than a lifesaver: VATS. Off of the combat field, it should be noted that the NCR is also very capable of handling issues passively, and it DOES have access to convenience perks like Pack Rat, so it remains very comfortable to play. Overall, while definitely very, VERY strong, convenient and capable, it doesn't quite feel like the STRONGEST....




Next up to review....Legion, Powder Gangers, Boomers, BoS. I'll post info here about my impressions of them once I complete their playthroughs.

If you're going for all factions, why not include some form of Enclave soldier? Like Hellfire or Sigma (I know those are only FO3 titles, but I don't remember if the soldiers FO2 were given clear cut types with unique equipment). I say let Mr. Enclave, Pistolero, and/or Lt. Andronicus decide; they'd know more about it than I would.

Not doing the Enclave both because there's VERY limited quests to support an Enclave playthrough and I fear it'd feel far too similar to the BoS. The two have incredibly similar fighting styles with only their culture being different, and the way Vegas works doesn't support a genocidal crusade to kill of all non-pure strain humans.

Factions I'm doing are:

NCR
Legion
Powder Gangers
BoS
Boomers
Great Khans
FoTA
The Kings
White Glove Society


NCR is already listed above, Powder Ganger so far feels powerful in the sense that I can spam drugs cause of Logan's Loophole, but semi limited in weapon choice. The Powder Gangers do however have access to explosives, energy weapons and normal guns, which is nice. Legion will be the melee master, BoS would be the energy weapons master, Boomers are the explosives masters. The Followers might unfortunately play fairly similar to the BoS, but we'll see. Great Khans would be a VERY nice combination of endurance, drug usage and powerful guns so that might actually end up being the strongest. The Kings and the White Gloves would be very different playthroughs from the traditional, considering they're very limited in weapon usage (Lucky and Sleepytime would be a Kings' ultimate weapons) and those are the only two that seem to be exceptional in charisma and Luck. I can see a Kings member doing alright but I dunno wtf will happen with the White Gloves.

Currently working on the Powder Ganger and Legion playthrough. The Legionaire is plenty strong, the Powder Ganger is a bit lacking, but I have a feeling it'll be surprisingly powerful once I gain access to better guns (Holorifle, ALSID, LAER, the unique laser rifle and Plasma rifle variants).

Enclave and Brotherhood would produce the most powerful warriors.

Enclave has Advanced PA and AVP MKII as well as plasma weapons.

Brotherhood have T-51b PA and use implants such as the ones you can get in New Vegas. They also have really advanced weapons.

The Shi would also have some awesome warriors, they have weapons IMO greater then the Brotherhood maybe even the Enclave's. Their people are also skilled in martial arts.

Since this is in the New Vegas section. Enclave remnants are the strongest, followed by the Brotherhood.

wat about a profesinal gambler they could support Mr. House but are amazin at gambling?? sorry about the grammer

An Enclave remnant play-through however, is fully supported. Nor does New Vegas need to support a "genocidal crusade," which isn't essential at all to an Enclave remnants roleplay.

In any case, it would be the Enclave that would produce the best warrior, its not even a contest really. In Fallout 2 Enclave soldiers were some of the hardest (if the not the hardest) enemies to fight one on one. They still are in Fallout 3, its just that the game's difficulty has been thrown back immensely to the point where nothing can be a real challenge to the player.

Sixty year old Enclave remnants with only two sets of power armor between them tore through the Legion/NCR soldiers with little apparent effort. I'd say that's all the proof we need.

But as I said, this isn't about lore, but about who's the strongest from a gameplay perspective. It's about which faction produces the strongest character if you pick the SPECIAL and perks based on what would suit that faction, then make decisions that faction would make. Judging by the perks (though still haven't done a BoS or FoTA playthrough), I struggle to see how any faction that utilizes energy weapons would win this.

Well...I have a couple ideas. Meltdown + Plasma Spaz + Laser Commander + Finesse + Better Criticals + Gannon Family Tesla Armor + Tesla-Beaton Prototype & Cleansing Flame & Spartel-Wood 9700 & MF Hyperbreeder Alpha & YCS/186 should be relatively powerful. Especially if you add Toughness, Concentrated Fire, Efficient Recycling, and combat drugs. Most of these would be in-character for the Enclave, if I am correct. Damn, this is making me want to try it.

@Lt. Andronicus: FO3 Enclave troopers are a challenge....particularly when two of them spawn on top of you at Lvl 8 w/o doing the MQ. I lost that save because those badasses killed me in seconds every time. The one time they didn't, they absorbed every bullet I had on me without dying. Even during the Liberty Prime battle on my subsequent playthrough, I had to stand behind that stupid robot all the way to Project Purity or the Enclave killed me. So...much....plasma...

I haven't gotten that far in FO2 yet, but I'm really looking forward to facing them with just melee weapons(sarcasm).

-Nukeknockout

Talon Company Mercenary, soldiering gear and soldiering skills, full wallet.

What about House?

He would have a Courier who is pretty inteligent and very charismatic.

Well in that case I can partly see your point then.

Although I'd respectfully disagree about energy weapons being naturally inferior to guns in New Vegas. A fully modded laser rifle now is one of the most versatile, powerful, and efficient weapons in New Vegas. I'd pick my laser rifle over any comparable gun any day.

With the right perks (including laser commander, and better criticals) an energy weapons build can be quite deadly.




You'll learn to dread this message:

*You encounter an Enclave patrol*

aw c'mon. we see the top legion with anti-materiel rifles, and some others on the veterans.
they are great melee warriors but the high end ones really know their way around powerfull guns. still they are not seen using heavy / energy weapons.
they use medicinal and healing chems (we find healing powder on lots of'em, some stimpacks).
a low-level character is prone do lower health because of his leaning on melee/unarmed style.
a perk for this character si the fierce loyality (they are loyal to each other and have one goal).
The character from Legion might be a core-legion type or a frumentarii. The ladder is more versatile and not very hard melee player, but rather just setling for hard. This allows for early guns and other.
But the frumentarii are spies and must already be brainwashed into Legion fanaticism, not to have them corrupted by the corrupt ways of ncr. Most couriers are frumentarii, so they must be pretty loyal to their legion, or they would've split from the first stages of "freedom".
So, i'm begging ou not to build the legion character only on lore and the perception of barbarism. They are opposed to the corrupt ways of old-world (the current western society) and many people find it hard to put down their sentiments in this matter and such are anti-legion.

I'm doing purist playthroughs for each faction, getting all possible positive rep for them. As I said, the NCR ended up wiping out Goodsprings BECAUSE it opens access to the NCRCF, giving you a way to double cross the NCR and gain karma with them. Also didn't ally the Khans or BoS, because Melissa gets ticked when you turn in her drug delivery (for NCR rep) and allying the BoS at all means negative rep.

I also choose the ending that gives the faction it's best result (which, some can be hard to decide, like the Boomers), and there really isn't anybody who gets their best ending with House, so that's why the White Gloves are on that list, though I don't expect the White Gloves to be particularly good at all.



They do have access to guns, yep, but no, they do NOT use healing chems. You'll never find a single Legionnaire that uses them; they all drop food items and healing powder isn't a chem. You must be thinking of Ulysses, who's really more ex-Legion.

But as I said, the Legion should be strong: You don't need any perks to accurately fire a GRA AMR with explosive rounds. Their main weakness is that they outlaw chems and implants. Doing the playthrough lately, I should have their stats up soonish.

I am really confused, you keep on referencing wiping out Goodsprings. And that makes sense why? If I am with the NCR, am I going to kill a bunch of civilians under NCR protection, go along with the Powder Gangers and kill even more people, then at the last minute double cross them? This just doesn't make sense to me. Instead you just leave Goodsprings in the beginning, cap the Powder Gangers at the two Powder Ganger camps along the highway, put on their uniforms, and then go to NCRCF. Once there, you can pickpocket/sneak kill the guy at the front (forget his name), then go in, do the missions for the leader, and then double cross him. Then, after all this is over, go back to Goodsprings, side with the town, and proceed to kill more Powder Gangers.

and yeah, I know you said that this is stat based, not lore based, but you still get the same NCR reputation bonus here, but in a manner that makes a lot more sense.

Alright, that was really the only gripe I had. This project is pretty cool stuff.


Looking forward to seeing the BoS stats, and then comparing to NCR ones. My character in FO3 was a pretty strong VATS/armor/energy weapons guy. It was T-51b Armor, Tesla Cannon with my 1043250934587 AP or nothing. But both of my characters in New Vegas have been really Guns based, and are medium armor dudes with super high criticals and sneak. Funny thing is that this wasn't really a conscious decision, it just kind of happened that way. Maybe because Power Armor was just a lot better in FO3, since the primary enemy had it and used big guns. Power Armor just isn't that essential/emphasized that much in New Vegas I guess. But anyway, I digress. Looking forward to seeing the whole VATS, guns, criticals vs. armor and energy weapons once you post up the BoS stats.

He did it because of his rather strict RP rules: Any action that can be used to increase rep with the parent faction absolutely must be taken, regardless of whether it's sensible.

-Nukeknockout

Npc wars kinda solves this question

-Cheers

But wiping out Goodsprings doesn't boost NCR rep; he wrote that he needed to do it in order to boost his Powder Ganger rep, but that's not true, you can simply leave Goodsprings and bribe your way into the NCRCF.

If the PGers are not at least Neutral towards you you will be KOS with them if you get anywhere near the NCRCF, and he wanted to have that quest available so he could do the 'pro-NCR' ending for more positive rep with the NCR, so he insured they would be on at least reasonable terms with him by razing Goodsprings.

For what it's worth you don't have to do that; whenever you talk to Trudy, as long as you avoid asking about the confrontation in the saloon you will not start Ghost Town Gunfight, which means that the PGers near the NCRCF will be Neutral towards you and you can enter the facility without getting shot at.

The bribe is a separate matter; you have to pay the dude no matter what, unless you're there to just level the place and don't care about doing I Fought the Law.

Goodsprings isn't NCR territory. I'd agree with you if it were, but it's not. It's an independent community they don't care about.

Having said that, I don't exactly think it'd be above the NCR to sacrifice a settlement to meet their needs. My reasoning behind this is basically how they act during the King's Gambit and the backstory of Vault City. In both instances, they're willing to act deceitfully and to get their hands dirty in order to meet their goals. I don't think the idea of an NCR agent exploiting the Goodsprings situation to get behind enemy lines is so outlandish, in that sense.

I also find it sort of....fitting. It fits into the theme of, the NCR is where the Powder Gangers come from, so in a way, they produced this problem and are incapable of stopping it. A Legionnaire playthrough on the other hand has no relations or ties to the Powder Gangers,and the Legion is more than capable of wiping them out without outside intervention.




This is true, though I simply felt more comfortable doing it my way. For example, it's also possible for the NCR to ally the Great Khans, but this would involve you lying to Melissa, disobeying Colonel Moore's orders, dealing illegal drugs within NCR companies, supporting the Fiends and you'd need access to Fortification Hill for it. There are alternatives to killing off Goodsprings and the Great Khans, but they just felt...out of character. In one case, you'd do tons of work AGAINST the NCR just to gain an ally your C.O. says she doesn't give a damn about, in the other it's just like "herp derp I'm an NCR government agent, can I come in your prison?" Hence, I did them the way I did them.

Yeah, it kinda does, GO GOJIRA, GO !!!!!

sorry for thee confusion. they don't use chems, but rather natural healing stuff. and all conquered tribes have recipes of healing plants, that have been asimilated into the legion.
ok.
so am waiting for the legion based character. if it's a realistic one i'm really interested in seeing it in action
cheers

Sorry for the slow updates, but this is a big project. It'll probably take a month per character.

Having said that, I'll probably have my Powder Ganger up by this weekend, and the Legionnaire isn't too far behind either. But I do have a question about what people think is more fitting.

I said in my original post that faction characters would be limited to weaponry used by their faction. This means that although a Follower of the Apocalypse for example might utilize energy weapons and be very experienced with them, he'd be restricted from using a Gauss Rifle (and all variants) because no one in his faction utilizes a Gauss Rifle. Weapons implied to be used by a faction are also allowed, for example the Boomers can use Marksman carbines and assault carbines because their dead bodies imply they utilize them, NCR can use rocket launchers and grenade rifles because in-game notes imply they use them, Powder Gangers can use service rifles because in-game dialog regarding Nipton implied they wanted NCR weaponry in return for capturing the soldiers.
Furthermore, DLC weapons were to be compared to their vanilla counterparts and treated as the gun they're most similar to. The Rocket's Red Glare is a rocket launcher, the Automatic Rifle is a LMG, .45 pistols are treated as 9mm pistols, etc etc. Some weapons however are difficult to categorize: the Holorifle for example. There are also guns like the Sonic Emitter that don't resemble a single gun in vanilla that's used by any faction, and thus, basically need to be unlocked for everyone... (or the Boomers and the BoS, because those are the only two factions with a tie to the Pulse gun, the closest vanilla counterpart)

These rule generally applies to every faction easily and creates interesting results.

However, one specific case has me rethinking the rule, unsure of what I should do: The Powder Gangers.

The Powder gangers are an interesting bunch, utilizing every single weapon type, but only the most basic weaponry. Laser rifles, plasma rifles, caravan shotguns, Sawed-off shotguns, 9mm pistols, brass knuckles, knives, etc etc etc. It occured to me that it was rather difficult to decide if the Powder Ganger should have access to the Holorifle and LAER. He can use both the Laser rifle AND plasma rifle, so that would unlock the Holorifle and LAER, wouldn't it? Then I thought, on the other hand, I could compare the Powder Gangers skill level of the weapons they already utilize and lock out the Holorifle and LAER if the skill level isn't high enough. For example, the Plasma rifle requires only 25 energy weapons, so the Powder Gangers wouldn't be allowed to use either the Holorifle or LAER since they require higher energy weapons, but COULD still use the Q-35 Matter Modulator and AER14 Laser Rifle. Again though, this created an issue: the Powder Gangers have access to Laser pistols, so by the rules of my old system, that would unlock Pew-Pew, which requires 50 energy weapons. With Pew-Pew unlocked, that would also unlock the Holorifle (but not the LAER). I also got to thinking that the Powder Gangers, under this new system, could never utilize ALSID, which has a 75 guns requirement, and most of their guns use 25-50 guns skill.

Basically, I'm not sure if I should use my old system of letting the Powder Gangers use whichever weapons are similar in style to the ones they use OR to limit them to what they've already proven they can use skill-wise. It's quite an important issue because on one hand, a Powder Ganger with access to all those weapons is SURPRISINGLY powerful, whereas a Powder Ganger limited from using all those is pathetic. On one hand I think this character should represent the strongest the faction has to offer, so it should have all weapons, on the other hand, the other system seems more accurate. On one hand, the GECK stats show the Powder Gangers of South Vegas as having stats high enough to properly utilize Pew-Pew and the Holorifle (50 energy weapons), on the other hand they never do. This also makes me question if I should let using the basic version unlock a unique version, I.E., does using a laser pistol unlock the more complicated Pew-Pew laser pistol.

Thoughts? Not sure which Powder Ganger to list: the surprisingly powerful one with access to ALSID, the Holorifle, Pew-Pew, LAER, Love and Hate, the Big Boomer and the Survivalist's Rifle, or the petty one who's stuck with the Q35-Matter Modulator, the Big Boomer and Lucky?

Honestly, I think weapons should be decided based solely on style. Not skill requirements. But what is and is not similar is debatable. I am of the opinion that access to the basic variant of a weapon unlocks the unique version.

The LAER is like nothing ever seen in the Mojave. It's not a laser, it's not a plasma weapon. In function, it is most like a taser, as far as I understand the science behind it. It's like the Sonic Emitter & Proton Axe in that respect.

In short, I'm thinking you should use common sense more than hard and fast rules. Would a powder ganger know how to use a LAER? A Powder Ganger would be able to use Pew-Pew, as that's basically an upgraded laser pistol. But a LAER? That's way out there and not similar to the laser rifle at all.

just my rather confusing 2 cents.

-Nukeknockout

Yeah that'd be the middle ground; sort of a compromise between the two, though then I would also allow the Holorifle if I allowed Pew-Pew.
The condundrum is basically that the system works perfectly for everyone else, but falls apart on this particular character. If I follow the skill check system, then Powder Gangers are actually horrendous with explosives, which seems ridiculous. If I use the first system, then I have a surprisingly powerful character for a very basic faction, all thanks to the fact that the Powder Gangers have access to a variety of weapons that are the basic versions of various rare weaponry. Lucky, ALSID, Love and Hate, Q-35 Matter Modulator, AER14 Laser Rifle, Pew-Pew, the Holorifle, the LAER and the Big Boomer, to name a few.

If I were to go with my "gut" though, the only ones I severely question are the LAER and the Holorifle. As you said, the LAER is a complicated new piece of tech. The Holorifle on the other hand is again, new tech, but simpler in design so that it's supposedly as complicated to use as Pew-Pew, a weapon they can use.

If I'm to list the version that utilizes the Holorifle though, then as I said, this is a VERY surprisingly powerful character, considering it has Logan's Loophole and is more of a "Jack-of-All-Trades, Master of none" deal.
As I said, I'll probably have it up this weekend. Very surprising that such an underdog, beginner faction produces such a strong combatant when you use the rules I'm following.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/mr.people/ScreenShot1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/mr.people/ScreenShot1.jpg

SPECIAL

8 Strength (6 STR is neccesary to use the Incinerator, a weapon they do use. 7th point was simply a point left over that I felt best belonged here as opposed to elsewhere, the last point is an implant. With the Reinforced spine, this becomes 10 STR)
10 Perception (chosen because it matches their love of explosives. Powder gangers are also often seen using energy weapons)
8 Endurance (chosen because the Powder Gangers display SOME ability to live off the land and use unarmed, though it's never highlighted as their strongpoint. Again, the 7th point is an implant, the 8th is from Lonesome Road, given to unlock another implant)
2 Charisma (chosen because the Powder Gangers display practically no charisma and have little to no public relations with other groups)
6 Intelligence (chosen because the Powder Gangers are neither incredibly bright, nor can they be called stupid. The 6th point is an implant)
10 Agility (chosen for the fact that many of them are self-proclaimed thieves, thus needing proficiency with sneak, which is governed by agility. They also utilize guns)
3 Luck (chosen for the lack of luck they must have to end up in prison working on a railway near a deathclaw nest. The 3rd point is an implant)

100 Skills

Guns
Explosives
Sneak
Lockpick
Energy Weapons


Traits
Loose Cannon (chosen to reflect their love of explosives, but general lack of PROFESSIONAL experience with them when compared to the NCR or Boomers)
Logan's Loophole (chosen to reflect that the Powder Ganger's are a small-time faction in the Mojave with limited strength and influence)


Perks

Heave Ho! (chosen to reflect their love of explosives)
Rapid Reload (chosen both because they utilize guns and because there's literally no better option at level 4)
Friend of the Night (chosen to reflect being a criminal)
Demolition Expert
Demolition Expert
Demolition Expert
The Professional (chosen to tie in with the theme of sneaking)
Hit the Deck!
Silent Running
Splash Damage
Infiltrator (chosen to, again, tie in with the theme of being a criminal)
Fight the Power! (chosen to reflect the rebellious nature of many of the Powder Gangers, specifically Samuel Cooke)
Tunnel Runner
Mad Bomber (chosen because the Powder Gangers show in game that they're innovative enough to create their own explosives)
Mister Sandman


Notable weaponry useable by the Powder Gangers

The Powder Gangers are an interesting bunch in that they use basically every beginner weapon the game has to offer. Basic guns, basic explosives, basic unarmed weaponry, basic melee weaponry, basic energy weapons: they have it all. While that weaponry itself is generally pretty bad, there ARE a lot of unique versions of basic weaponry the Powder Gangers can use. Lucky, ALSID, Big Boomer, GRA Baseball Bat, GRA Plasma/Laser Pistol, Q-35 Matter Modulator, AER14 Laser Rifle, Love and Hate, Chance's Knife, Bloodnap, Sleepytyme, .45 Auto SMG, Pew-Pew and even the Holorifle. This provides the Powder Gangers with a surprisingly strong variety of weaponry.

As for explosives, the Mad Bomber perk provides a variety of different weapons for them to use. MFC grenade clusters, Fat mines, bottlecap mines etc. It should be noted that although the Powder Gangers could be thought of as explosive specialists, they do NOT have access to many unique explosive weapons. Grenade Rifles, Rocket Launchers and Grenade launchers are never seen being used by a Powder Ganger, but rather they only show experience using thrown explosives and land mines. So no, they do NOT get Thump-Thump, Annabelle or any other non-thrown explosive weaponry.

As for what I used? In the end, the Holorifle served every single purpose this character could want. The Holorifle was the ONLY non-explosive weapon that had a high DPH and carrying MFC was nice because I could always convert them to grenades thanks to the Mad Bomber Perk, and thus the Holorifle became a trademark weapon for the character. The Holorifle also demanded MFC, which were quite heavy, and the Powder Ganger lacked any additional carrying capacity perks AND companions, so weight was a definite issue. I literally just ended up carrying the Holorifle, MFC grenades and Satchel Charges.


End-game armor

Ulysses' Duster, Joshua Graham's Duster or any other unique light armors were viable options. Interestingly, some Powder Gangers also use heavy armor (but obviously not Power Armor), so wandering around in Metal armor is an option too. One could even argue a Powder Ganger could sport the armor of the 87th Tribe, depending on if you view that as acting out of faction or not. I chose not to wear it both for that reason and because the character gained a sneak speed bonus from Light Armor, so I stuck with Ulysses' Duster. As for headgear, I used Salt-upon-wound's helmet.

Stats:

HP: 405
DT: 23.6 (Salt-Upon-Wounds' helmet, Ulysses' Duster and the Sub-Dermal implant, plus some from the Big Empty body parts)
Crit Rate: 11%
Action Points: 95
Carry weight: 250
Potential DPH (as seen in Pip-Boy, Hollow point not being included in this category): 148 (Holorifle with Overcharge cells; character is incapable of producing maximum charge cells)
Potential DPS (as seen in Pip-Boy, Hollow point not being included in this category): 320 (.45 Auto SMG with basic ammo; character is incapable of producing custom load)
Potential DPH with explosives: 1020 (Fatmine)
Companions available: None, though I suppose Rex would be a possibility
Notable restrictions: Has access to Turbo recipe, but can't produce it (or Slasher) without the use of Mentats and a skill magazine due to low Science skill. Likewise, can only produce overcharge cells with the same setup, though these can be found in bulk in the Divide.
Notable strengths: Cannot be addicted, drugs work twice as long. This means the character effectively has a permanent 25% DR, since Med-X can be found all over in large amounts. A couple other bonuses could be seen as permanent aswell, since many drugs can be bought in bulk via Sierra Madre chips. "Perfect" aim and an additional 60 HP (for 465 total) could also be semi-permanent, whereas the character can also enjoy an additional 25% damage and increased AP regeneration from time to time. I'm afraid I didn't get to experiment much because the character JUST reached the neccesary Survival skill as I completed the game, but I believe this character would also receive the effects of Rushing Water twice as long; the possibilities with various drug combinations are quite large. You could essentially enter a fight with 100% accuracy and maxed firing speed....The character also has an incredible sneaking speed: I swear my sneak speed is the same as my normal running speed.




Pros:

-Very High Explosive damage, the only things restricting it from being the HIGHEST explosive damage is that the character lacks the best explosives weaponry and even for mid-tier explosives weaponry, lacks some of the perks (Grunt, Cowboy)
-Cannot be addicted to drugs, so the 25% DR of Med-X is practically permanent.
-Cannot be addicted to drugs, so if one were willing to take time to farm Steady with Sierra Madre chips, the character could have permanent "perfect" aim
-Fastest possible reload time
-Fastest Reload Speed of Energy weapons among all factions. Other factions of the Mojave that utilize Energy Weapons lack the agility neccesary to reload quickly; the Powder Gangers do not, so the lightning fast reload speed of this character combined with the power of guns like the Holorifle and Pew-Pew is very refreshing and VERY powerful.
-Night-vision (sort of. Not full night vision like the Elite Riot helmet, but decent night vision from the Friend of the Night perk. Hazmat suit cowl could also be equipped for full-on night-vision, though the primary rifle (Holorifle) already provides nightvision in the scope)
-Highest possible perception without ED-E
-Fastest Sneak movement speed in the game; sneaking speed feels as though it's exactly the same as normal running speed
-Incredible sneaking ability; very difficult to be detected. Best possible sneaking ability in the game, to my knowledge.



Cons:

-Despite the benefits of free drug usage, the limitations of Logan's Loophole are quite extreme. The character's HP suffers from it, which, combined with a lackluster DT, make the character rather easy to kill. Did you know a single Satchel Charge explosion from the Lonesome Road can kill a character with Logan's Loophole? I know.
-Despite having a surprisingly large arsenal of weaponry for a beginner faction, the character has a VERY limited arsenal of DPH, long-ranged weaponry. As in, it has one: the Holorifle. Every other weapon this character has is incapable of fighting at long range and struggles when trying to punch through high DT opponents. This makes the character rather limited in comparison to other factions when it comes to options of how to deal with a target from long range or how to deal with a high DT opponent in close-range, where laying down mines isn't an option.
-No companions
-Carrying Capacity is an issue. This character utilizes mines, grenades and energy weapon ammo, all of which have decent weight to them. This means the character doesn't enjoy the luxury of being able to carry around 5 different guns and 6 different types of grenades/mines, but rather has to limit itself to one or two guns and one or two explosives. Again, like with the above point about the DPH long-range weapon issue, this makes the character rather unflexible compared to other factions. Fighting the Brotherhood of Steel in close-quarters would be an absolute nightmare for this character.
-Limited access to Turbo and Slasher due to a limited Science skill; needs skill magazines to produce them
-Cannot produce maximum charge MFCs and SECs due to a limited Science skill. Overcharged cells, again, require a skill magazine, though many Overcharged cells can be found in the Divide
-Can be crit on, unlike any of the major factions that enjoy level 50 perks. A single crit headshot from an AMR is more than enough to kill any character on Very Hard mode. (and it has on this character )




My Overall Grade: B-/C+

This character was a definite surprise for me. I planned on doing every faction that's recognized in the Pip-boy with it's own reputation category (and the Kings, who could practically be seen as Freeside's rep), but I never expected much from any of the minor factions that were limited by Logan's Loophole. The Powder Ganger's however turned out to be a Jack-of-All-Trades, King-of-None sort of deal, where while the limitations are obvious, the faction has access to various styles of play that it could be competent at. You could run around with a Holorifle and lay down mines, you could run around lobbing grenades before beating enemies senseless with Love and Hate, or you could rely on the DPS of a .45 auto to blast away the stragglers after throwing grenades into a crowd. The faction has access to weaponry in every direction, allowing you to try various combos with explosives. You can't, however, try several of them at a time. You have to choose, because weight becomes a definite issue. .45 auto ammo is heavy. Microfusion cells are heavy. Holorifles and .45 auto SMGs are heavy. What I particularly found impressive was how well the character worked with energy weapons, probably because this was the first time I'd used energy weapons with a character that reloaded so quickly, probably because rapid reload is a guns perk. The DPH/DPS ratio with energy weapons and fast reload speed felt phenominal. I'd imagine the Holorifle would usually suffer from slow reload speed, but not on this character. Explosives felt like an auto-win button; either throw a grenade or lure an enemy into a mine and then if they were alive, there wouldn't be much left they could do. There was a point in the Divide where both my arms were broken, I had no Doctor's bags and there were ~12 Tunnelers I had to take care of. All I had to do was shoot at one with the Holorifle, thus luring them into a cluster of Satchel Charges I'd laid down, which I had plenty of since the character was good enough with explosives to defuse them in time to collect them. Sneaking was also a definite plus; there was no way this character wasn't going to start the fight with a Sneak attack crit. The sneak speed literally meant that I never had to leave sneak mode; I kited back several enemy types while sneaking just as I would while running.
Nevertheless though, Logan's Loophole remains a limitation. His HP is low, his DT is low, his crit rate is low. His perk selection is limited DESPITE having such a diverse array of skills and weapons that would normally allow this character to unlock a platoria of abilities; 15 perks was just enough to get every explosives and sneak perk, but alas, there's none left to get anything extra. Could learn Super slam, but no perks left. Could learn Laser Commander, but no perks left. Could learn And Stay Back, but no perks left. And that's why this character is a Jack-of-All-Trades, King-of-None that ultimately falls short, but boy does it fall short with style. Thus, I think this character could be described as above average, but not exceptional.