I don't really kill any civilians I usually just feed on them. My true enemies are the werewolves. If I find any human wandering the plains of skyrim at night let me just say they don't return to their home

Neither for me. I'd choose a third option where Vampires avoid getting too involved with any humanoids; so not interested in seducing or terrorizing them. Really if you're old, powerful, and had to keep those facts to yourself wouldn't it be logical that mortal humans would not be the people you'd want to spend time with, and are ultimately uninteresting? I'd think it'd be more of a Vampire thing to interact with your own kind, hence the complex rivalries between Vampire clans. Those kinds of relationships seem to be engineered to simmer away over centuries and involve the kind of strength and strategy that can provide some challenge for a Vampire. Seducing or killing humanoids isn't much of a challenge in comparison.

For worship, I don't think the genesis of vampirism is relevant. Molag Bal's motive for creating vampirism probably wasn't worth worshiping him for. Supposedly his reasons had very little to do with the mortals it affected, and were more about his fixation with Arkay. Those that were infected were only the means of getting Arkay's attention. So I think a Vampire could worship anyone, or no-one. I personally worship none, but I think of Azura every now and then because she's the only Daedric Prince I've met and had positive experiences with.

I don't see any basis in TES for Werewolves and Vampires being mortal enemies. In old mythology werewolves and Vampires were inter-changeable. In some folklore a werewolf was a living creature who would become a Vampire when he/she died. In Dracula (the novel) he could transform into a wolf.

Transforming into a wolf does not make a werewolf. In the novel Dracula was a vampire who could turn into a swarm of bats (did you know that in the vampire movies they actually use fruit bats for the transformation into bats because actual vampire bats are tiny things and would not be easily seen on screen) and also a wolf but it does not make him a werewolf.

Werewolves are more complex than a simple transformation into an every day wolf.

Werewolves don't transform into a wolf? They partly turn into a wolf, half man half wolf.

Basically, hence the term werewolf which means manwolf, ironically Khajiit and Argonians can be called werecats and werelizards due to their appearance even though they are not the typical werebeasts of mythology.

In fact you can kinda see the parts of a werewolf that are less wolf and more human/mer.

How they stand is one example, they are bipedal rather than quadrupedal.

Vampires retain more of their natural look unless they go vampire lord which looks more like an ugly assed Orc (uglier than the typical Orc) with small assed wings on its back and an Orc becoming a vampire lord makes it look like the Orc gets bigger, uglier, and grows a set of ugly wings. Again, turning into a wolf does not make a werewolf but turning into a vampire lord obviously means you are a vampire, if there were druid type spells in Skyrim then we could probably turn into wolves without being werewolves.

Good point but still Werewolves are nothing to me

Ugly means nothing to a vampire lord either though, ugly does not necessarily mean weak, usually ugly means run away.

Werewolves probably tolerate each other's presences more because from what we know in Skyrim their are only two werewolf packs. The one in white run and the one in Solstheim. All the other werewolves we see are either alone or in pairs so they are few and far in-between.

Why don't you vamps try the Dragon challenge we have? Take out every Dragon Lair in one transformation and no waiting.
You could add a rule for it being only during the day, no ring/necklaces buffs, etc etc.

Are you a werewolve?

Anyone got a good topic we could discuss?

Yes I am a lycan. I was just making a challenge suggestion.

You are making a statement out of your preferences for fictional creatures. Just because you wish to define fiction in those parameters doesn't mean anyone else will. Being fiction means it's going to evolve and is always open to reinterpretation in any case. Someone made up something 700 years ago, someone else made up something slightly different a hundred years ago, and you or I could make up a new version tomorrow.
The transformation of a man into a wolf has been termed werewolf in many legends and mythologies, as well as countless fiction. The OED definition of Werewolf is: noun "(plural werewolves)(in folklore) a person who changes for periods of time into a wolf, typically when there is a full moon". And if you research the language surrounding supernatural creatures you find that not only are the mythological creatures of werewolf and Vampire interchangeable, but their names basically meant the same or similar things. It's modern fiction which has compartmentalised supernatural mythologies into things which are entertaining and easily understood and accepted by people.

But back to TES... What lore or game evidence is there to support that Vampires and werewolves should behave toward each other as if they were just transported from the Underworld universe?

TES wise I've never heard of a person turning into an actual wolf if they are werewolves, it's only been the half man-dog combo. There's nothing to say it's not possible since druids have a thing for transformation magic but lycanthropy generally has only ever made the hybrid shape. It's like trying to make vampires turn into bats instead of that semi-humanoid shape, they can turn into bats but that is magic from how I understand it.

There is no evidence that vampires would be hostile with werewolves and vice versa, only "evidence" is how they react to others so it's pretty easy to assume that they'd attack each other as well. It's and "us" vs "them" style of mindset.

Werewolves stupid? You clearly haven't been hunting with them....or hunted by them. There are few things more terrifying than being targeted by a single werewolf, much less a pair or trio of werewolves. I'd personally much rather deal with a pair of angry dragons landing on my head, which can be pretty terrifying if you've ever been chased through the forest by a fire breather. I had to change my shorts after that debacle.

Vampires aren't so much "more intelligent" as we are more ruthless, diabolical, devious, and possibly a tad more cunning...at least in the 1 on 1 arena. As a whole I'd say that the one major leg up they have on us (aside from strength and speed (not counting VL form here)) is that they can coordinate like no other. They know how to play well with each other. Vampires? We'd eat our own for the slightest chance at gaining more power, actual or political.

So. Stupid? No. No sir. Werewolves are not to be underestimated, nor trifled with.

TES Lore: None that I'm aware. I don't doubt the influence of the Underworld fiction, but from my end its an assumption drawn from the fact that these are essentially two Apex Predators who are (along with man) struggling to become numero uno in the natural pecking order. It would only seem natural that, as a whole, either group would find a reason to go to war with the other. Individually I'm sure they could enough common ground to sit down and have tea with each other, but peer pressure being what it is... blood spill along with heads on pikes are inevitable imo.

Granted, not everyone will see it this way.

A question Abrinth! Pointing to the underlined portion of your quoted text above, could you kindly point me to some web sites or literature that led you to this understanding? My own understanding (derived from my own studies over the years) suggests that while the Werewolf Mythos may have ultimately been derived from the Vampire Mythos (depending on which ancient myths and legends you're considering) they are in fact not interchangeable nor do their names mean basically the same thing. But again, that is only my current understanding.

Werewolves may hunt in packs, but they always underestimate us vampires which makes us the better race. Plus we don't smell like wet dog and have better control over our anger.
When elder scroll online comes out we vampires can show those stupid mutts who's boss.

The most interesting stuff I've come across on this subject has come from books, not so much the internet. Here's a link I've found that might start you off, if you are interested in this subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrykolakas. The Mykonos Vampire has always been known as a vrykolakas.

There's more on this subject including the common ancestry between words meaning 'vampire' and words meaning 'giant' (in the Nephilim sense). And in both of these senses they are descriptives of a race of beings. I don't want to spam out the topic however, since this thread is about TES, not mythology.

In TES I would consider both Vampires and werewolves to be in the minority. In the Underworld films both werewolves and Vampires are generally well represented, so they compete for resources. Whenever the balance in numbers changes significantly the conflict dies down. If they were both in the minority and hunted by humans it would be more logical if they banded together because they would have similar needs and the same enemy.

I've encountered both Vampires and werewolves in the wild and they all try to kill me. And to answer my own question about evidence that werewolves and Vampires don't get along, I remember I have seen wilderness encounters which are Vampires vs werewolves, so I guess there is something in the game to support this. I just don't think it's very logical.

The thing is that in Skyrim werewolves are stronger but vampires cunning, so let's say a pack of werewolves against 5 master vampires. Who would win?

Any ideas for a challenge or topic of discussion???

My wolf underestimates nobody, if it finds an opponent able to give it a good work out (I.E a close fight) then it will be happy, in the end both opponents would probably headed in the opposite direction of each other. Be it another wolf or even a vampire my wolf will still see you as a worthy foe and perhaps a somewhat worthy friend if they can give my wolf a good beating while taking a good beating from my wolf.

My vamp character is similar to my wolf, both are deadly, smart, and stealthy. Both are happier when facing stronger opponents and both prefer to be up close and personal during fights. They have yet to encounter in the story I am typing at work but when they do the fight will be close and it may end in a draw or end with only one of them walking out of the fight alive.

TOPIC OF DISCUSSION
VAMPIRES THROUGHOUT TAMRIEL

Ill start with Morrowing seeing as my character is a Dunmer himself.

The Dunmer are strongly opposed to any form of necromancy, thus vampires are largely unknown in their land of Morrowind. The Tribunal Temple has some control over the public knowledge of vampires, but cannot keep it completely unknown. In the past, Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers were in charge of eradicating vampires, leading to their supposed extinction. Thus, the hunting orders that exist in the western Tamriel are unknown.

The vampires of Morrowind are typically in one of three bloodlines, which differ in accordance to their "approach to prey". The Quarra are aggressive and fierce when it comes to hunting, while the Berne clan prefer a stealthier approach. The Aundae bloodline consist of vampiric mages, who use the dark powers associated with vampirism to entrap prey. These vampires not only have their own strongholds, but are also dispersed amongst the Daedric shrines and abandoned Dunmer and Dwemer strongholds. Ironically, these clans show great hostility to new-born vampires, considering them abominations as their living counterparts do.

In the Red Mountain, the Ash Vampire was an immortal magical being of vast power. They were close kin and loyal lieutenants of Dagoth Ur, and thus partook of his supernatural vitality, but they were not related to true vampires - in fact, they are not even undead. Near the end of the Third Era, the number of vampires began to rise in Morrowind, leading to renewed calls to exterminate them

Meanwhile vampires in Skyrim do not seem to have their own strongholds.

My vamp character and my wolf would probably work together to slaughter as may morrowind vampire as possible, my vamp because of them seeing newborn vampires as abominations . . . they were once that themselves.

They were once that themselves obviously but what I think is that when they say 'newborn vampires' they mean vampires that contracted the disease in order to become one. So say if you had contracted the disease of sanguine vampiris (I think I spelt that wrong) and I was born into vampirism so my mother and father were vampires as for you, you had no link to vampirism your mother and father were normal Dunmer.

I don't think you are born as a vampire to vampire parents, you are born normal . . . Oblivion proves that already.

You either 1. get turned by your parents
2. contract the disease in some other way
3. get [censored] by malog bal