From gameplay videos I've seen, the strip doesn't seem to have that many people. I was kinda disappointed to see the developer go into a casino there were only like 4 people in there. You'd think that with such a rebuilt society, there would be many more people. Any word on this?

You have to remember man, immersion VS supportable engine. Some sacrifices are required mate.

In my wildest wet dreams, but no

The game is on a schedule, it could be the dev went in during daytime when there would be less in the casino. Could be nighttime would have more NPCs. Also, some casinos maybe more popular than others.

As far as number of NPCs, once you get about 20 to 30 in a cell, depending on the scripts that are running for the NPCs and Globally, the game starts to get a little chuggy. There maybe a way to get more in a cell by reducing what the NPCs are doing, but that would not be good either. Note, I have not seen this many in a FO3 game, only Oblivion when I started a riot in one of the towns and about 30 NPCs died. I swear it was not my fault, really it wasn't. Anyway I could tell that if many more were to show up it would start getting choppy. Of course, all the NPCs were fighting and throwing magic at each other, so that could have reduced the number of NPCs that could be handled a substantially.

Yeah even on the streets, watching the E3 demo it seems too quiet. Hopefully there will be more ambient sound in the final product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgyLXM81Mpc
Especially noticable when the player is at the fountain around 0:40.

I don't think so mate... as Martyr said, some sacrifices are required. Too many NPCs would cause drop on the framerate.

Try getting 300 wastelanders via console commands. The game crashes.

Anyway, I don't think it is that bad, becuase even though the infastructure is alright, doesn't mean the wasteland is safe...

The Strip will be more populated than the E3 demo. That's why it's been carved up into three different cells.

*Four

Prolly no more populated than Rivet City was.

It might be as populated as the Imperial City on TESIV. Yeah... I think I could call Vegas the Imperial City of Fallout.

RAGE

As much as it can without giving the Gamebryo engine a heart attack, I would imagine.

Time to change the engine or heavily upgrade it then?
If a town is meant to have 100+ people then there should be 100+ people there, not 20 npcs just cause the engine can't handle it. (IMO)

The problem with that is making the NPCs actually worthwhile. Ideally you want as many named NPCs as possible, with their own stories, personalities, etc. People like Maggie, Billy Creel, Nathaniel, Gob, Nova, etc. All of those NPCs had a dozen or less lines of dialogue. They had just enough details and personality to have character. There can only be so many "Insert-Name-of-Town Citizens" generic NPCs running about before it gets frustrating. If you truly had 100+ NPCs running around, and only 20 or so where actually named characters, how long until you went insane trying to track down someone to hold a conversation with? Much better to have fewer, more meaningful NPCs. Quality over quantity as they say.

It has always been implied in the Fallout games that the cities and settlements have many more citizens than are actually shown. New Reno for instance is said in Fallout 2 to have thousands of people ("if you can call them that"), yet you won't find near that number. Vault City is probably the most accurate representation of a city in the entire series, as it supposed to only have 109 citizens, and you can probably find and count that many in the game.

Regardless, a certain level of abstraction is required in an open world game like this. And that is hard to do. If they put in NPCs, players expect to be able to talk to them, shoot them, rob them, etc. If they put in more buildings and houses to imply more people live in a city or settlement, players will expect to be able to go in those buildings and explore. Buildings as simple facades with no way to enter them may work in a GTA game, but not in an RPG where the expectation is that if you can see it, you can explore it.

It was easier for old RPGs to have more generic NPCs. No dialogue had to be recorded, and the NPCs could stay in one spot and never move. With Radiant AI, even those generic NPCs, like the Megaton Citizens, have a schedule that they follow, and there must be places for them to sleep and eat, and tasks to do. And even generic NPCs now need recorded dialogue to spout off when activated.

I'm all for more NPCs in towns and settlements, but I want them to have a purpose and a name, even if that means there aren't as many present.

I guess.
Still annoys me though.
From a logical standpoint.

It doesn't matter to me as long as it doesn't affect the gameplay. Although I don't want any more glitches add in then there needs to be.

They dont tend to add filler npcs till near the end still I wouldnt actualy expect all that many people. This is more about a place where wealthy people go not a horde of poor people or even fairly ok off people.

I imagine its mainly due to the limitations of the console hardware. Ive spawned dozens of NPCs in one area myself on Fallout 3 and had no problem with performance.

This is very likely part of the reason. There are also imposed limits on how many NPCs there can be in battle at one time, I think it's either 20 or 30 total. If you had 100 people on the strip and a fight ensued, the game would implode or explode (who can say?). In general it won't work.

This is a case in which a new engine Is required for large numbers of NPCs using Radiant IA - perhaps that is part of what Bethesda is working on with their new engine?

Only 20 will fight in total, the other guys shut down completely.

looking at the artwork and a trailer, the casino's and houses buliding (and maybe some others) are surronded by a wall so people may live there but behind the wall

Totally with you LWR

please tell me more about that riot what town was? was it like mages guild vs brotherhood or fighters? sounds nice

You guys JUST realize that the Fallout games have less NPC's than it looks? Look at the vaults! Supposedly 1000 dwellers in most of them, when you escaped Vault 101 there were no more than maybe 20 in the whole vault. Remember, the world ended, so you can't expect Vegas to be the way it is today, in a post apocalyptic world. I would rather have 30 NPC's that I can actually keep track of when I need to, than spend hours looking for them in a crowd in about 7 casinos.