Is the PC version STEAM only?

Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:30 pm

When you buy a Steamworks game, even a physical DVD one, you can't resell it ever once it's registered. This isn't stated up front to the buyer; I can show you numerous titles that show plenty of logos of what tech. they use, but somehow fail to mention Valve, Steam, or state this registration and non-transferability requirement.
If you happen to read the fine-print of the EULA and refuse to install it because of this, your retailer will probably refuse to return it stating they don't return software due to "piracy" or some such nonsense. This is completely in violation of commercial law in most countries as it's terms and conditions presented after the sale, and destroys the Right of First Sale, in addition to other things. But Valve is a very large company with plenty of lawyers so it goes unchallenged. It's also a U.S. company so is untouchable elsewhere.

If Valve/Steam thinks you are trying to sell your account, they will permanently lock you out of games you paid for with no refund, no recourse, no appeal. One person lost $1,800 worth on his account for this. They also will do this if they think you cheated on even one of your games. They don't have to prove this; it's their word against yours and, again, Valve is a very large company with plenty of lawyers.

Retailers sell Steam-registered games, as noted above, that then install the full Steam client and encourage buying games through Steam rather than the retailers. The retailers have no recourse. A group of retailers in Britain now refuse to sell Steamworks-enabled games because of this.

That's all I have time to type right now. :) I'm sure there's more, but these are some of the major problems.

Steam is not the center of some software monopoly/government conspiracy. :nono:
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Susan Elizabeth
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:44 am

There are plenty of problems with Steam, sure, but there's a lot of benefits, too. You don't need the disk in the tray to run the game, you don't need the disk to install the game (though it does go faster), it's a one-stop shop for all the DLC, and handles downloading and installing it for you.

I've never really cheated in one of my Steamworks games, so I don't know if that's multiplayer only or if they even will try and bust you for single-player games (I suppose the only way they would be able to do that is by achievements).

Steam has worked directly with Oblivion/Fallout modding teams to integrate OBSE and equivalents into their hardware, which is FAR more than other retailers do.

And let's not forget the most important part of Steam- the deals. Christmas and the Summer Sale, games are on sale with discounts that can't be matched in physical stores.

Also, with Steam, the only DRM is that the client must be open. If you tick offline mode, it won't even need the internet. In terms of DRM, it's not the greatest method, but it keeps devs from loading our games up with things like SecuROM.
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Stat Wrecker
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:11 am

I prefer SecuROM to steam.

Yeah, you read that right.
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Melanie
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:35 pm

I prefer SecuROM to steam.

Yeah, you read that right.

Ellaborate, please.
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lolly13
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:25 am

@Kivan

If I worked at a publisher, I would certainly try to thwart reselling used games. That's an extra sale I could have made.

It's a huge reason why the DVD market collapsed for non tentpole titles. Blockbuster had deals with the studios to get a massive number of copies that they would rent out on a revshare basis and then when rentals slowed for the title they would sell those copies far below retail price.
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Calum Campbell
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:17 am

I prefer SecuROM to steam.

Yeah, you read that right.

Me too, but only the version of SecuROM that requires just a disk check. The online and limited activation stuff that SecuROM put in games like Bioshock and Spore is just as bad as Steam. Any server-dependent game is really just a rental that will expire whenever the server goes down.
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laila hassan
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:17 am

I've never had a problem with Steam before, so I could care less if its Steam only. Yay for Steam! :celebration:
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Danii Brown
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:39 am

Steam is not the center of some software monopoly/government conspiracy.


Please point out where I implied it was.


@Kivan

If I worked at a publisher, I would certainly try to thwart reselling used games. That's an extra sale I could have made.

It's a huge reason why the DVD market collapsed for non tentpole titles. Blockbuster had deals with the studios to get a massive number of copies that they would rent out on a revshare basis and then when rentals slowed for the title they would sell those copies far below retail price.


Why not activate cars on the internet too? They all have computers in them now. We could claim it's for security purposes, to download important updates and ensure that only the verified owner can start the car. Then we can claim we don't own the car, we license it from the manufacturer. After all, every time someone buys a used car, that's a lost sale.

Bethesda is the last company that needs Steamworks to prevent resales because they offer long-term value and replayability. That's how to stop resales: make a great game!
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Sarah MacLeod
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:39 am

I am sick of steam. seriously I pay 40 euro more for an non steam version because if I am playing a game on steam it crashes every freakin 20 min annoying messages from your friends ingame,freaking ads which make you crash ingame
random people that ads you hey you got elder scrolls cool man that kind of nonsense
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Cccurly
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:27 pm

A couple remarks

If Valve/Steam thinks you are trying to sell your account, they will permanently lock you out of games you paid for with no refund, no recourse, no appeal. One person lost $1,800 worth on his account for this. They also will do this if they think you cheated on even one of your games.

Lies. This is not how the Valve anti cheat works. You never get locked out of your game at all. You don't even get locked out of multiplayer capabilities as long as the game you want to play has servers which do not check VAC status.


Retailers sell Steam-registered games, as noted above, that then install the full Steam client and encourage buying games through Steam rather than the retailers. The retailers have no recourse. A group of retailers in Britain now refuse to sell Steamworks-enabled games because of this.

And that is a problem for us customers? It's their loss.

That's all I have time to type right now. :) I'm sure there's more, but these are some of the major problems.

Edit: The one thing I forgot. Games are priced the same on Steam as physical copies. So for $60, I can get Skyrim from Amazon, on a physical DVD, with a paper manual, sleeve, case. It's mailed to me so postage has to be paid. Or I can get it on Steam and get a bunch of bits. The profits must be extraordinary.

And that's why I'd like the game to require Steamworks : It means you can look for a good physical copy deal and have it registered on your Steam account anyway :P
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Charlotte Henderson
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:14 am

I am sick of steam. seriously I pay 40 euro more for an non steam version because if I am playing a game on steam it crashes every freakin 20 min annoying messages from your friends ingame,freaking ads which make you crash ingame
random people that ads you hey you got elder scrolls cool man that kind of nonsense


Steam is probably sick of you too.

Get a new computer or do an virus search, it's not related to Steam that your computer is constantly crashing.

I'm using Steam since 2003 without a single problem and I'm not even living in the US. 99.9% of all problems caused with Steam are related to the end user, not Steam.

I hope it will be Steam only, so less people will be able to pirate it.

Go with the future, download Steam now. Living in the past and being paranoid of innovations won't do you no good.
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NAkeshIa BENNETT
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:44 pm

Is there going to be Steam Cloud for this? I would love to continue my game from both my desktop and laptop without having to resort to stuff like Dropbox.

Color me excited. Steam and DD is the future.
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des lynam
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:43 pm

I hope it will be Steam only, so less people will be able to pirate it.


Steamworks games are cracked and uploaded on release day.
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Milagros Osorio
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:37 am

Personal preference of course but I don't mind steam too much, just as long as its not that games for live nonsense. *shudders*
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naana
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:11 am

Seriously this anti steam hate is just [censored]. People are only hating it now because develops are starting to use steamworks instead of securom/tages/etc and thus its the new thing to hate. But theres a big difference between Steam/D2D/Origin than all the others and thats the fact that they dont destroy your PC, they are to install AND remove, they dont have hidden files that conflict with other software (lots of DRM software wont play nice with progams like Alchol or Daemon Tools). Back in 2003 when steam was released, yeah sure you could whinge and [censored] about it, but now its just stupid. its the leading Sales platform for PC Digital Distrobution and more and more compaines are dropping DRM software like G4WL and Securom infavor of Steam because thats what the consumer prefers.

The only gripes i have with steam is the price gouging but thatds the fault of greedy arsed publishers ( yes that includes you bethesda softworks) and the fact that when a game is given a midnight release. it means 10am the following day when the staff at steam wake up.
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Yonah
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:50 am

Seriously this anti steam hate is just [censored]. People are only hating it now because develops are starting to use steamworks instead of securom/tages/etc and thus its the new thing to hate. But theres a big difference between Steam/D2D/Origin than all the others and thats the fact that they dont destroy your PC, they are to install AND remove, they dont have hidden files that conflict with other software (lots of DRM software wont play nice with progams like Alchol or Daemon Tools). Back in 2003 when steam was released, yeah sure you could whinge and [censored] about it, but now its just stupid. its the leading Sales platform for PC Digital Distrobution and more and more compaines are dropping DRM software like G4WL and Securom infavor of Steam because thats what the consumer prefers.

The only gripes i have with steam is the price gouging but thatds the fault of greedy arsed publishers ( yes that includes you bethesda softworks) and the fact that when a game is given a midnight release. it means 10am the following day when the staff at steam wake up.


Agreed. Steam haters are probably the same that kept bashing Skyrim the last copple of weeks, until they saw recent game footage and pissed their pants out of excitement.

Kids are weird theese days.
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Jon O
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:00 pm

Steam is probably sick of you too.

Get a new computer or do an virus search, it's not related to Steam that your computer is constantly crashing.

I'm using Steam since 2003 without a single problem and I'm not even living in the US. 99.9% of all problems caused with Steam are related to the end user, not Steam.

I hope it will be Steam only, so less people will be able to pirate it.

Go with the future, download Steam now. Living in the past and being paranoid of innovations won't do you no good.


Great post!

If players wouldn't rip off the hard work of developers they wouldn't have to protect their intellectual properties with clients like Steam. As is, we, the PC market, have forced their hand which is nobodies fault but our own. You want to complain about a company looking after its own interest, then I'd suggest you find another hobby because I'm all for these developers protecting their work if it means they'll continue to provide me with entertainment in the future.
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remi lasisi
 
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Post » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:45 pm

Is there going to be Steam Cloud for this? I would love to continue my game from both my desktop and laptop without having to resort to stuff like Dropbox.

Color me excited. Steam and DD is the future.


This is something I'm hoping for too.
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Charles Mckinna
 
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Post » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:56 pm

Steam is probably sick of you too.

Get a new computer or do an virus search, it's not related to Steam that your computer is constantly crashing.

I'm using Steam since 2003 without a single problem and I'm not even living in the US. 99.9% of all problems caused with Steam are related to the end user, not Steam.

I hope it will be Steam only, so less people will be able to pirate it.

Go with the future, download Steam now. Living in the past and being paranoid of innovations won't do you no good.


5 years ago I bought a brand new gaming computer bought some games on steam and all that things what I named happenend
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Rhysa Hughes
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:11 am

5 years ago

Steam is a lot better now compared to 5 years ago.
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how solid
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:30 am


Why not activate cars on the internet too? They all have computers in them now. We could claim it's for security purposes, to download important updates and ensure that only the verified owner can start the car. Then we can claim we don't own the car, we license it from the manufacturer. After all, every time someone buys a used car, that's a lost sale.

Bethesda is the last company that needs Steamworks to prevent resales because they offer long-term value and replayability. That's how to stop resales: make a great game!


Games, software and media are essentially data files.

A thriving market for previously used data files can completely undermine the value of retail copies and the revenues that drive development of future games.

Already we have seen the shelf space for independent and foreign films drastically reduced in key retailers like Walmart, Target and Best Buy. Many smaller films that in the past could have counted on 100k+ DVD copies now only sell a few thousand units. As a result there is now far less financing available for independent films.
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Breautiful
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:21 am

It's probably going to need steam yes. What's wrong with that?


Lack of choice/control.
Requiring online for a single player / offline game is silly.



Personally, I found Steamworks to be less annoying than GFWL


Depends on which part, of course. :)

G4WL utterly blew for getting the FO3 DLC. Steam has the clear advantage as a digital download shop / distribution center.

On the other hand, once FO3 was installed, I never had to deal with G4WL again, and could ignore it / disable it.

:shrug:



Is there going to be Steam Cloud for this? I would love to continue my game from both my desktop and laptop without having to resort to stuff like Dropbox.


Really, really doubtful - save game files for Beth games tend to be freakin' huge. The storage space & bandwidth that'd be taken up by Steam Cloud'ing the save files from Skyrim would be monstrous.
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Dezzeh
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:51 am

lol... so many steam haters or should i say ignorant people.

you can play steam games offline..... and no, theres no problem doing that, you just have to connect to your account online once. thats it.
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Rob
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:13 am

Steamworks games are cracked and uploaded on release day.

Some non steamworks games are cracked and uploaded BEFORE release day.
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kelly thomson
 
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Post » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:10 am

I just like it how every developer assumes that everyone has and Internet connection everywhere... I travel a lot, and sometimes I end up bored in places with no Internet, so I can't even chat on line or anything else like that, and wanting to install a game. I usually pace a copy of something with me, but not necessary pre install in on my computer. I want to be able to install my game and play in everywhere, regardless of availability of Internet... It's not that much to ask really.
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Shannon Marie Jones
 
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