So you haul your desktop PC in to town to your friend's house, install the game, then haul it back home, and hope that Steam NEVER demands to be given online access, or decides to hold your games ransom until you connect for its updates; and all this for an offline single player game that has no use for internet connectivity. <_<

Steam's offline option is intended for laptop gaming on trains and minor stints away from the internet; its was never intended to be in constant use.

This! A hundred times. DRM should be non invasive should not restrict the freedom to install and uninstall the game at any given moment and generally should never use Internet. Not for anything.
If people want achievements, social sites and other on line features, than they can use Steam all they want and be happy doing it, but if it is forced it's a very bad move.
Don't forget - pirated games do not have to connect to anting, once recorded on a disc people get DRM free and as a consequence hassle free game, so if legal companies want to have more sales and less pirates they have to learn no to place the users that payed for the game at the disadvantage in comparison to thous who downloaded it. Just remember Bioshock and Spore - in both cases people who downloaded the game illegally enjoyed it while thous who payed for it tried to make it work, contact the support and so on. I'm not buying any on line activated games after that.

Unfortunately whether Steam (or any DRM) is forced or not, people will still be able to pirate the game (which is illegal). Bad enough DRM typically leads to more people pirating the game out of anger and to avoid DRM completely. This would only burden the people who legitimately purchase the game, while the people that pirate the game would get a Non-Steam/DRM version. If I were Bethesda, I would recommend not using any (or very little) DRM at all. That way people like myself don't have to go through things such as Steam.

this is true, there are lots of other choices:

• TAGES
  
• SecuROM
  
• StarForce
  
• Online Copy Protection
  
• SafeDisc
  
• Ubisoft Cloud Copy Protection

There is also the option of no DRM at all, but that has become very rare.

Or a simple disc check. Works just fine. DRM never prevented people form pirating games, thous who buy the game don't do it because the "can't get the pirated copy" but because we want to buy the game legally, so the company should show some trust and don't burden the customers.

It will never happen for Skyrim. Media companies have a fiduciary obligation to their shareholders to perform due dilligence in researching and choosing some sort of DRM strategy. Even if it only persuades a tiny fraction of pirates to buy the game due to the inconvenience.

As for Skyrim, all signs point to Steamworks for retail PC copies:

1. Brink and Fallout New Vegas used Steamworks
2. when asked whether the game would use Steamworks in the February podcast Todd replied something to the effect that: "We like Steam"
3. Bruce Nesmith confirmed there are many "achievements" in the game

Seems very likely then. Makes sense if they work with Steam to make sure modder stuff is compatible with it too.

This.

It would be a lot easier for me to go to a coffee shop and pirate a game than try to get a steam game going on my desktop.

I buy my games, and I always have. It really grinds my gears I can't get a game because of DRM.

Juts wanted to post this, The Witcher 2 patched out the DRM altogether recently: http://www.bluesnews.com/s/122119/the-witcher-2-patched-drm-removed

Adam Badowski, CD Projekt RED Development Director, commented, “Our goal is to make our fans and customers happy and to reward them for buying our game and DRM schemes does not support our philosophy as they might create obstacles for users of legally bought copies. Our approach to countering piracy is to incorporate superior value in the legal version. This means it has to be superior in every respect: less troublesome to use and install, with full support, and with access to additional content and services. So, we felt keeping the DRM would mainly hurt our legitimate users. This is completely in line with what we said before the release of The Witcher 2. We felt DRM was necessary to prevent the game being pirated and leaked before release. This purpose has been served, so we are pleased to let our users enjoy the full freedom of game usage they deserve.”

How is it easier to download a game through a torrent site, scan for viruses, install with some sort of hacked exec. to circumvent the product key and load through an image loader as opposed to dl the steam version, load necessary files, then click play?

Page back through the thread. :/

Say the desktop in question doesn't have a reliable connection. I can't haul a desktop to a coffee shop.

Because modern pirated games are very "user friendly" - install (if the game is burned to DVD is does not require additional programs), replace .exe and here you go, the downloads although usually include all the patches and lots of additional content.... That's the sad truth of life - pirates evolve as well. For someone with no Internet connection it's sure easier.

In the recent EDGE interview, Pete Hines indicated they are projecting Skyrim and Rage to be the best-selling Bethesda games of all time. For as many millions of units they project, there will of course be many more pirated. Out of all those millions of pirates, even if only a very tiny fraction, 1% or 5% decide to buy the game, simply to avoid the inconvenience due to the activation process, or perhaps so they can earn Steam achievements, or whatever reason, that small fraction still represents a significant amount of revenue.

Out of all the possible DRM strategies, Steamworks is better than a number of more draconian options:

• no locked number of installs
  
• unlimited number of computers
  
• you can install the game without even opening your pristine collector's edition box
  
• no online requirement to play (after install you can play offline forever)
  
• small memory footprint
  
• no rootkits
  
• no hard locks

I think developers need to work out more ways to combat piracy than pure DRM. Have the good ol' disk check, but then have more incentives to actually purchase the game. A cheaper price could help, but maybe they could give something physical, like some free content vouchers for new purchases. That way there's also a reason to buy new.

Not a great idea to talk about piracy as an alternative regardless of intentions, if you think Beth are touchy about leaked footage god only know how they will react to hints of "unofficial shareware".

If it needs steam, I will buy the game, and then I will [nothingnothingiwon'tdoanythingelse]

no. You can buy it in the store, like any other version of the game.

It can still require Steam however.

He really isnt that bad......oh you mean that StarForce....nevermind.

Eh I dont mind Steam, my disc drive only really works maybe 3/10 times and I use it maybe once every 2 months so I havent needed to spend the money on a new one. I dislike using discs, so download is definitely the way to go for me.

I do have to correct two points:

A. Zenimax Media is a privately held Corporation and as such it is not subject to the same stock-related pressures as a publicly-held corporation. Additionally, A company has no fiduciary responsibility to its own shareholders. Shareholders hire and fire the Board of Directors who hire and fire the officers who hire and fire the rest of the employees. The Board, the officers, and the employees could be fired for incompetence should they fail to select a DRM scheme that fits the company's directives, but they do not have any legal liability for their poor decision (just as the guy at McDonald's has no legal liability for giving you 20% more french fries in your pouch than the guy in front of you got in his).

B. To the best of my knowledge, no media corporation has ever released any actual statistics regarding losses (realized or unrealized) due to software piracy. Accusing pirates of hurting their business makes for great PR (especially when you never have to back those statements up with any facts) and eases the consumer base into accepting DRM schemes that would otherwise be completely unacceptable. Frankly, I suspect that the exclusive purpose of digital distribution and DRM schemes is to eliminate the second-hand market (used games) by game publishers. I'd be willing to bet that places such as Gamestop will be filing suit in the near future and alleging monopolization attempts.

And yet, you need an internet connection to either dl the pirated copy OR the Steam version. And if you happen to dl through Steam, you log on only once and can go into offline mode. This will allow you to play without an internet connection for as long as you please. So you initially need a connection for either version which eliminates your argument.

That is actually not true for two reasons.

Reason one is related to piracy and is therefore a restricted topic on this board.

Reason two is that Steam will still connect from time to time while in "offline mode" to see if there are any Steam platform updates. If there are, or if the check fails because you are not connected, you will be prevented from logging into your Steam account or accessing your offline games until you reconnect to the internet and download the new platform.

a 1% or 5% of pirates buying the game is a lot. What I can't see is why would they do that, if as some people says a legitimate instalation on steam is more complicated (surelly an exageration, but to what extent?). besides you are not counting that the oposite could also hapen, what if 1% or 5% of legitimate users decide to go the other way?

I think without actual data about it, you can't count on any percentage in this stadistic.

This is why I don't buy new games on Steam. Steam sales however are INSANE and do pass off the savings of the cheaper distribution.