The Volkihar clan keeps true to the lore then most people th : V - Skyrim

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:33 pm

I still wonder how the volkihar kept the order and other clans out of skyrim I still keep trying to think of what is the volkihar forte I mean other clans have immense strength(Quarra), crazy magical ability(Aundae), stealth (Berne), intellegence(Anthotis) and blend/politics(Order). All we got is that the volkihar are really cruel and paranoid but how does that keep the other clans out? Phasing through ice won't do much since they can simply stay away from the coast.

Would the Order even seek to get into Skyrim in the first place? Most likely they would be worrying about their own Thalmor problems and seeking to keep their sovereingty in Cyrodiil rather than jump into another province to take it over. So far we have no reason to believe the other clans even sought to enter Skyrim. We do know, however, that there were more than one vampire clan in Skyrim and that the Volkihar wiped them all out in the best way that they could(see Dawnguard radiant vampire quests). The Quarra, Berne, Aundae were all mixed up in a single brute civil war between bloodlines that they all must of wiped each other or died when Red Mountain erupted.

The Volkihar are smart in their own rights and subjugated the other clans by sending out people to kill them before they caused trouble. The Order must of used politics and their own members to fight off vampires. For example, it is mentioned some of the Holy Knights had vampiric blood and never aged. So they used their own members or even mortals to kill them off, or perhaps have the clans kill each other so that they could go in and take them all out at once.

Nah, you are just obsessed with the Whet-fangs, they aren't as cool as the Glenmoril Wyrd.

I would agree, but then she has a point at the bottom.

Exactly.

A clan of enlightened Argonian vampires that the Order borrowed their idea of using magicka to keep their prey in a coma-like state. Who knows what other tricks they have up their sleeve? The Glenmoril Wyrd, I haven't looked them up much and don't know what they do but I do like the idea of highly political breton vampires.

Pfft. They hide behind castles and send people out to do their dirty work. Think . . . Volturi!

*activate flame shield*

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:26 pm

But the Dawnguard quest itself makes very little sense, so this not making sense is just another small thing in a long list. (I've given up trying to figure out who any of these people are and what they are trying to achieve).

Well this is a good point honestly. There were a lot of logical crashes in dawnguard where things just seemed nonsensical. You know, like

Spoiler

escorting vampire with elder scroll to daddy and letting them go, and the vampires then letting you go now knowing EXACTLY where their hideout is and what means of travel are necessary to get in.
How the dawnguard accepts serana but the second you turn into a vampire all hell breaks loose? Or if you're dawnguard its dawnguard vs vampries, where if you're a vampire its you vs yourselves?

And probably if seranas mom just locked the scroll away and not serana, the dragon born may never have even met them and the whole story would be postponed another thousand years cause no one knows where to find the scroll, and the dragon born didn't show up to say your mommies still in the house xD

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:16 pm

My first time playing Dawnguard I chose the vampire side so it felt natural to escort Serana back to her castle.
It was quite a good trek too, I didnt fast travel, discovering how good her AI was and generally experimenting.

It wasnt until I tried playing for the Dawnguard faction that I noticed I couldnt just steal the scroll/ tell her to get lost.
Mystifying.
I havent tried yet to just escort her to the Dawnguard keep instead of the Volikhar castle.
Is there anything that happens then or can you just not advance the quest that way?

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:14 pm

My first time playing Dawnguard I chose the vampire side so it felt natural to escort Serana back to her castle.
It was quite a good trek too, I didnt fast travel, discovering how good her AI was and generally experimenting.
It wasnt until I tried playing for the Dawnguard faction that I noticed I couldnt just steal the scroll/ tell her to get lost.
Mystifying.
I havent tried yet to just escort her to the Dawnguard keep instead of the Volikhar castle.
Is there anything that happens then or can you just not advance the quest that way?

Neither side makes sense to me. She shows up at Fort Dawnguard on her own and Isran lets her hang around unsupervised basically because you tell him it's okay. Although if you are a Vampire he then locks you out and demands you get a cure while Serana is wandering around inside Fort Dawnguard as a Vampire. There's no option to tell Isran that although you may be a Vampire (like Serana) you are also okay... :shrug:

» Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:24 am

Neither side makes sense to me. She shows up at Fort Dawnguard on her own and Isran lets her hang around unsupervised basically because you tell him it's okay. Although if you are a Vampire he then locks you out and demands you get a cure while Serana is wandering around inside Fort Dawnguard as a Vampire. There's no option to tell Isran that although you may be a Vampire (like Serana) you are also okay... :shrug:

That is correct.
In the case of Serena there is extensive dialogue about Isran not trusting her and killing her where she stands but in the end he is convinced she can help out.
However if you yourself are a vampire there is just no way.

Ive only played the Dawnguard side once so hadnt noticed that before.

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:17 pm

That is correct.
In the case of Serena there is extensive dialogue about Isran not trusting her and killing her where she stands but in the end he is convinced she can help out.
However if you yourself are a vampire there is just no way.
Ive only played the Dawnguard side once so hadnt noticed that before.

You also said it feels natural to take Serana to Castle Volkihar when you intend playing the Vampire side - but along the way she tells you about her father and the conflict - so why does she want to head back to him?? Especially when she was locked up with the scroll so he couldn't find her - but now she decides to just walk on back to him voluntarily...? Why did she even bother to just spend thousands of years locked in a box???

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:18 pm

Would the Order even seek to get into Skyrim in the first place? Most likely they would be worrying about their own Thalmor problems and seeking to keep their sovereingty in Cyrodiil rather than jump into another province to take it over. So far we have no reason to believe the other clans even sought to enter Skyrim. We do know, however, that there were more than one vampire clan in Skyrim and that the Volkihar wiped them all out in the best way that they could(see Dawnguard radiant vampire quests). The Quarra, Berne, Aundae were all mixed up in a single brute civil war between bloodlines that they all must of wiped each other or died when Red Mountain erupted.

The Volkihar are smart in their own rights and subjugated the other clans by sending out people to kill them before they caused trouble. The Order must of used politics and their own members to fight off vampires. For example, it is mentioned some of the Holy Knights had vampiric blood and never aged. So they used their own members or even mortals to kill them off, or perhaps have the clans kill each other so that they could go in and take them all out at once.I would agree, but then she has a point at the bottom.
Pfft. They hide behind castles and send people out to do their dirty work. Think . . . Volturi!

*activate flame shield*

That is just it, maybe the Order wanted to move into Skyrim because of all the chaos with the Thalmor in Skyrim, that is the only reason I could see as to why they would be in Skyrim.

And what point did she make?

» Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:08 pm

You also said it feels natural to take Serana to Castle Volkihar when you intend playing the Vampire side - but along the way she tells you about her father and the conflict - so why does she want to head back to him?? Especially when she was locked up with the scroll so he couldn't find her - but now she decides to just walk on back to him voluntarily...? Why did she even bother to just spend thousands of years locked in a box???

Fight your enemy from the inside?
Its been a long time she doesnt know what has changed or if he is even still alive.
Seems natural she wants to scout the place out and after the initial visit she quickly takes any chance to get away from there.

But yeah, the plot suffers from this artificial restriction to have both sides do the same quest.
This is why the few quests unique to each faction are so much better, they actually root in the interests of the faction.

» Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:00 am

That is just it, maybe the Order wanted to move into Skyrim because of all the chaos with the Thalmor in Skyrim, that is the only reason I could see as to why they would be in Skyrim.

And what point did she make?

I don't think many members of the Order moved into Skyrim at all. Movarth probably did as a nomadic type and sought to create his own subclan, it didn't workout too well for him out of sheer stupidity of trying to take over the town. There could be few members of the Order in Skyrim to act as spies and such for the clan while the rest of the small group tries to deal with the Thalmor. Personally, Order Vampyrum trying to play mind games of manipulation with the Thalmor would be an excellent story.

The point that the Whet Fang are not too barbaric, as the clan from Cyrodiil mentioned in their own bible and copied their feeding habits.