Travel services are a little more immersive because you don't have to navigate a terrible menu, just a quick conversation.
And as I said before, I would pay for that rather than deal with the menu.
And i don't care how much better the UI gets, although with apple as an example god help us all, I will still prefer that little tid bit of immersion.

I'd prefer it if we could hire the services of a raft, horseman, etc and only fast travel between the major settlements we've already discovered. At the very least, restrict fast travel to all settlements already discovered and make it so that after a certain amount of times fast traveled that you have to go to sleep at an inn, your home, whatever. The current system is not realistic for TES.

I have an idea! how 'bout if in the harder modes, there is no fast travel!

Flipping through load screens is a piss poor way of representing a long distance.

Why does repetitive viewing increase your enjoyment? Oh wait, it doesn't.

Which doesn't seem like a big deal against Oblivion's method, where you can visit the major cities just like you could in Morrowind. As for returning to locations, most often you never need to. If you're trying to get somewhere and you travel to the closest place to that area, I don't see how you've lost anything exploration wise. Heck, if they figure out the general lay of quests to not give you an advantage in that situation, it only benefits people for exploring so they will get more fast travel availability.

Are you saying you didn't figure out OB's travel method? You walked if you were on foot. You rode if you were on horseback. You went sneaking along if you were sneaking. Morrowind's is dastardly more unbelievable from the start because most of those travel methods are economically unsustainable from a lore perspective and the mages guild travel service is clearly against the previous game's lore on teleportation availability.

Same as Oblivion. Actually without the teleportation spells you probably had to walk more in Oblivion that Morrowind. So, Oblivion had an extra level of experience because you couldn't teleport out of dungeons, making you walk out to the front door. Long journeys actually feel like long journeys. No more click on one divine intervention and you're there. You get to enjoy the dungeons a lot more. Not just the first time, but the second, third, fourth time, and so on. :biggrin:

Here's a thought to throw around. I don't have time to read through both threads and I've mostly avoided the fast travel debates to this point, so this may have already been mentioned. Sorry if it's already been mentioned, haha.

What if fast travel was limited to main roads between cities or something? Or to map markers within a specific (fairly short) distance of a main road. I'd personally assume, under normal circumstances, the main roads would be somewhat guarded (they were in Oblivion, albeit poorly at times). Uneventful journeys could be believable based on that assumption. And then the player has to walk from the road to the dungeon. Still gives the impression of a journey. Especially if you're visiting a new area.

It still involves a notion of teleportation, but what method of fast travel doesn't? Morrowind just had a more believable explanation behind it's method, imo.

Btw I'm going off the belief that BGS isn't including Morrowind-style fast travel (since, iirc, there's been no mention of it thus far). And for the record, I'm of the belief that both Morrowind and Oblivion fast-travel should be included. I'm probably one of the few people that enjoyed both.

Just a thought that occurred to a very tired mind, haha. No flaming, please.

"don't like it, don't use it"
and get over it while your at it.

Yeah we won't use it... that's why we want an alternative...

First of all, in a forum, don't [censored] tell people what they like. I you don't like seeing the landscapes, then don't, don't assume people who say they like it don't just because you do not, and then use it as an argument. :slap:

The only thing against lore compared to the other games (i.e. Daggerfall) was that you could use the guild teleportation service at low ranks and even if you were not a member. This could, however, be explained simply by the fact that this game was set in a whole different region of Tamriel and they may handle things differently, or: the game is set in a later period and the mages guild may have become more tolerant/in need of money "if you can pay for it"-mentality.

"Don't like it? Don't use it" actually worked in Oblivion for me. I didn't really think there was any room for a Morrowind-styled travel system (where would you go by boat for instance?), and I liked the walking (don't tell me I don't when I clearly state here that I do!). The only time I would use fast travel consequently was the quest after Kvatch where you needed to escort Jauffre and Martin to Cloudruler, the companion system simply svcked too much...

Why? (and how exactly?)

The only right (that's right), is the right to purchase it. One can (if the company accepts such) offer comments... But its (rightly) no different than a customer offering comments to Disneyland about how to improve the Magic Kingdom rides. There is no 'right' to be heeded, and rightly, no obligation by the game developer. I (personally) find the notion of such hypothetical 'rights' disturbing, because it would seem to lead down a path of preemptive paranoia for the developer ~and result in poorer games, not better ones IMO.

I've been reading the threads for three years and I still don't see what the problem is. I bought and played Oblivion before I even knew about their forum, and only learned of the travel issue some members had from reading about it here ~I had a 26th level acrobat PC, and I'd never encountered anything troubling with travel in the game.

In plain words would anyone say what the problem is specifically?
What teleportation? Seriously, what teleportation? The only teleport that I encountered in the game (IIRC) was in the Mages Guild where they had these transporter rune/symbol tiles on the floor.

Ah... this is insightful for me. We agree on the lack of random encounters (its the 2nd reason I always considered FT in Oblivion broken), but I haven't a clue about what is meant by "no gold", or the notion of 'paying' for a 'time shift'?? Why would my PC pay gold to walk to the next town ~and to whom? Now that is something that I would find jarring and bizarre ~an immersion breaker of the 'impossible to ignore' kind. There should be no fatigue charge for a leisurely walk.. Though I would not mind a "forced march" option that gets you there in less time, but arrive a ? or ? fatigue. This would work well with the the implemented risk of ambush ~where your chances go up, and if it does happen you are badly fatigued.

That's not lazy, that is just a strange way of looking at it IMO. The lore consistent explanation is obvious, no? Look at the time shift... what does that tell someone? Imagine for a moment that a quest in the game involved the PC being a stow-away inside a trunk on the back of a carriage. How would that play out in the game? I would imagine that the PC enters the trunk and the lights go out. Now the game could conceivably play 10 real minutes of carriage sounds and (if using Night-Eye, show the inside of the trunk) ~but why do that instead of simply fading to black and fading back in when they arrive and open the box? When one uses the so called "fast" or "instantaneous" travel ~it is no such thing. The designers expect the player to realize that 'fading out' in one town, and 'fading back in' at the next town implies a long walk by the character. :shrug:

When you mention paying a believable fee for instant travel... I would agree that a mage willing to teleport the PC for serious gold, makes a lot cents (for the mage :rolleyes:); but the idea that one would pay a fortune for a cart-ride, or in some carriage to the next town makes no sense to me at all. As far as the game is concerned you arrive hours later (as it should be... unless one actually wants to sit in a covered wagon for ten RL minutes ~I sure wouldn't).

I liked that about Morrowind... but I still don't understand why Oblivion's time compression is any different or requires any suspension of disbelief ~Or why its in any way not ‘intradiegetic’. I mean... Take the DM example... What is the issue between a DM/(or video game) offering real instant teleportation to another town miles away for 1000 gold~and then you arrive, or offering a wagon ride there for 2 gold ~and then you arrive. :shrug: In the former you get there instantly, in the latter you get there six hours later by the game clock. It is this notion of "but it only took a second!!" that boggles the hell out of me. I don't get it, and no ones' telling. The third option is to walk and should not cost anything but time (the time shift you mentioned before).

Agree %100, keep OB style for those that like it, but add a toggle or transpot network like Caravanners etc.

I didn't had a problem with Oblivion's fast travel since it saved me some time,some times that I just wanted to move on to progress a quest instead of exploring.

But I have an idea of an alternative that I believe the people who dislike Oblivion's fast travel might like:

I suggest the addition of a "hardcoe/survival" mode in which between whatever else,the fast travel system also is changed.
And I think that a good alternative is the fast travel feature you find at S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games.
Stalker games are a mix of open world rpg with horror fps,and you fast travel (in case you are bored to walk yourself the distance on foot) by speaking to specific "guide" npcs who will transfer you to important places for some money.

That explains why you don't get hurt during the travel,and also adds some things people are asking about.

But I believe it would be better if this feature would be added to a "survival" mode instead of the basic gameplay,so both hardcoe survivalists and casual gamers can choose to play the way they like most.

Because there are no alternatives. If you don't like Oblivion's Fast Travel system, the only option is to walk (or ride a very slow horse) everywhere. (Yes, I know Shadowmere was much faster. But what if I didn't want to do the Dark Brotherhood quests? Again, no options.) Thus, the argument is invalid. The game was designed with the use of the Fast Travel system in mind. They clearly intended for you to use it. If you don't, you have to subject yourself to hours of mind-numbing slow travel between remote portions of the map in repeated "go fetch this item and come back here" quests. It's like my earlier anology: gasoline is expensive. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Except that won't sound like such a good idea in the morning when you need to get to work. It's absolutely silly. I don't like paying taxes, but the only other option (don't pay them and go to jail) isn't really an option. Let's get real. This shouldn't be rocket science, people. It just shouldn't be hard to figure out that, without a viable option in place, "don't like it, don't use it" just doesn't fly. And we're campaigning for viable options here, so we won't have to use it.

You know what ?
I played Oblivion in both xbox360 and pc,but I played it first on xbox.
I remember Shadowmere was so fast the game couldn't handle it.
It was running faster than the game's cells would load and as a result to that the "Loading area" message would just dissappear for some seconds before reappearing for longer,and the game lagged when riding that horse. :confused:

I have to believe that the whole point of including the travel option is to save players the tedium. :shrug: ~Its a boon.

The "If you don't like it, then don't use it" argument is not flapjack when offered in response to the contention that Fast Travel should go, so the argument is not "invalid for everything" as the OP says. However, when you state that you dislike using Fast Travel and that you wish there were a more immersive fast alternative, it is annoying to hear someone respond with an invalid "If you don't like it, then don't use it."

"No alternatives" is not an attribute of Fast Travel, so it hardly counts as an argument against Fast Travel. Sometimes it seems people forget that fact.

I don't quite understand the argument that Oblivion was designed around fast travel. So what if a quest sends you to Cheydinal, then Lleyawiin, then back to Chorrol, are all quest givers supposed to want things within easy walking distance? If you don't want to walk, and don't want to fast travel, you can't do the quest, that is your choice, go loot a nearby dungeon instead.

And as for the argument that Cyrodiil was too boring, or uninspiring, to walk through, well I am sorry to say that is an opinion, not a fact. Oblivion's landscapes suited my, and some other's tastes just fine, that is my opinion. I do not see how the landscape not being to your individual taste can be used as proof of a flawed travel system.

Don't get me wrong, I am not being an apologist, the Cities being flagged as FT destinations from the start seemed broken to me, I would walk to each of the cities the first time, that was my choice.

Just add random monster encounters to the fast travel system, by choosing from a large set of pre-defined encounter locations somewhere along your path. That way, when you're making a routine fast travel between cities or such, you have a good chance of popping up in a new area you've never visited before.

It's quests are designed around fast travel because fast travel exist. If fast travel didn't exist, the quest travel distances would have been made far shorter. *That's* being "designed around fast travel". I find it strange even having to explain it...

So the argument is that in a game without fast travel, all quest destinations will be really close to the quest giver, and no one will ever send you to a further part of the map. How does this make any sense? Are people really saying they want all their quests grouped in little hubs, you start in a town, do everything, then move on to the next hub?
What I am saying is, it is quite believable to send you here there and everywhere, with or without fast travel, and only having short distances to travel for quests smacks of forced design for player convenience, exactly the type of thing removing no hassle FT is arguing against. I know what the argument is, you didn't need to explain, I don't understand it because I believe it is a stock argument that hasn't been fully thought out.

What are you talking about "flaming" ? I want to throw some flames down on a nice charbroiled steak and serve it you. Those are some great ideas. I never thought of that idea and it's really good.

But also ... what if, when you get to the main road, the game sends a chariot or stagecoach (for hire) past your location and you can stop it and request FT? If you want it, you call out to it. If you don't, you let it pass. Once it's far enough away from you, and out of sight too, it vanishes. If you take it, it offers a choice of either direction along that road? That sounds fun. Plus, if the model and animations were already in the game, Modders could do some awesome things with Stagecoaches, as long as they don't look modern at all, very Nordic and slightly crude, I would imagine...

The believability thing is the biggest issue for me. When I play an RPG, I am doing so to be a character. Being this character, I would like to not have to break immersion from the world i'm playing to teleport somewhere, then reenter and ignore the unbelievability. Morrowind's style fixed this. I would also like to say that I would hate to have a complete omission of the feature, as it is indeed a service, and above all, the game is meant to be entertaining, not tedious. As for anyone who says 'It's not tedious because of this or that' should realize that that is an opinion.

Id rather want the morrowind system tbh

I have never played Morrowind. But from what the OP and other posters have described, I would be all for this.

It would certainly help build a more realistic/believable world if you had to save up and pay for a boat (or whatever) to tkae you somewhere.

They could leave in the fast travel system for those who want it, as well as add other means of transportation for those who don't.

Good post OP.

Fast travel is ok, but no compass and NO directional markers for quest and quest waypoints/npcs


But, when using fast travel there should be a possibility to a hostile encounter , imo. and not just one kobold but 10 or more etc . MAKE IT HARD !

I completely agree, but it's all for naught. Bethesda seem quite content with how they have it, and see now flaw with the "don't like it don't use it" policy.