But it's so long
I don't have the energy to read it (tired). :confused:
Would it be possible for you to like, summarize the main points of it in a sentence or two?

I read them, I wasn't answering to the OP but to those who care too much about immersion. I have 400 hundreds and more of gameplay in OB, and the FT is absolutely one of the reasons - any other game that hasn't FT is now in some corner of my room.

Of course there are better ways to do it: I'd use some teleportation spells limited in range. So for example with a middle level teleport you can move up to 3 or 4 miles away. It would be mainly for wizards but it's quite normal for wizards to have more amazing powers and options than a non magic user.




You got the target completely. Also using a spell as a traveling option wouldn't break immersion.

Most of you are very arrogant, wanting Bethesda to change their system just for your self-interest.

Personally, I like the Morrowind fast travel service and would hope to see something similar in Skyrim - as long as I fast travel, but with payment, that suits me. None of this realistic crap I see you're all talking about; when I want to FAST travel I should be 'punished' (I'll use that term for now) for it by paying gold. Other than that, if the regular fast travel system will stay in, I won't use it. Why can't you? Because you like alternative methods to fast travel? Sorry, but that doesn't work for you, because it's called FAST travel for a reason - not 'travel'.

Now, just to give my two cents, i think beth is going to realise this sooner or later, as it seems to currently be one of the "big" issues. Now, myself, in oblvion i would always walk/ride to my destination, but i would FT back, so yes, i am gulity of "cheating". Personally, i hated oblvions FT. Now, i know this has been brought up before, but look a RDR for influence, not only for horses. RDR at least tried to mask FT with other methods that made sense. In Skyrim, you could possibly use Mammoths, wagons, caravans ect. I just hope beth dosn't stick with the "Don't like it, don't use it" bs.

Yeah I agree.
If I'm not entirely wrong, didn't Dragon Age try to make fast travel a little bette as well?
I remember hearing about this, but I haven't played the game so I'm not entirely sure.

I agree with everything OP said. I enjoyed Morrowind way more than Oblivion simply because the gameplay mechanics were so simplified (IE: the dang compass which I couldn't even turn off). That's not to say Morrowind didn't have its flaws but it was certainly better than Oblivion in many ways.

I vote greatcarbuncle for president

OK, a universal method that integrates both MW style in-game traveling facilities with OB style map point and click, which guides player/ride/sail avatar over the map, with a chance of random encounters and lots of possible interactions with avatars of points of interest, all of which are fully script-able by designers and easily changeable by modders.

Sound like a good compromise between MW and OB style to me.
Preferebly I hate OB's fast travel, but I understand that there are people that like it. This would satisfy both parts (and improve the fast travel system already in OB), which other games have also aimed to do (RDR for instance).

Ty for the summarize :thumbsup:

So basically, fast travel only within cities, to other cities? I mean thats all morrowind was right?

Oh and there was fast travel in rdr, you just made a camp and selected to travel to your way point.

I don't care if an alternative was in, apparently it makes people crazy happy, its just not something i would use. Also i imagine if they had both, they would get criticized for having fast travel and caravan travel. I mean if you have fast travel why would your average player use a travel service that made you pay?

The reasons why have been stated throughout the thread.

Just wanna underline something. Travel services makes sense in a world in any case. They wouldn't be there "just" for you to travel. They would also be there because towns would need supplies and transportation for trading goods to other towns.

i kinda like the idea of not being able to fast travel to any city starting out, maybe take the skyrim equivalent of a bus to get there, and watch teh county roll by. That might be cool teh first time. Especially if you had to be there at a certain time to ride the whatever. Other people should also use it with you

That actually sounds pretty damn interesting. Good job. Bit Fable3ish (the map and the interactability with it) but some parts of the Fable series are actually pretty good and innovative. Stuff happening when you fast-travel is good but should be far less common than when you travel normally. AND of course the events have to be interesting, otherwise they're just plain annoying either way.

http://omgif.gosedesign.net/wp-content/deal-with-it.gif

I think that's what people were saying about Morrowind in the old thread. Also then I pointed out that Morrowind is an aging game and no NPCs had ANY schedules whatsoever, so obviously if a travel system beyond the mappy-clicky one, NPCs would probably use this as well (seeing how much NPC behaviour was already improved in Oblivion).

Congrats, you win the prize for being the the most useless troll comment I've ever seen on a fast travel thread. :trophy:

Reading through here (and some of the other threads), I've seen some good ideas and some ideas I'm not fond of. I would like to suggest these points: an Oblivion-style fast travel system that included stoppage for random encounters would be annoying to me if it were the only choice. The reason I use fast-travel in the first place is to go immediately to the point where I want to go. I do not wish to be interrupted by anything, for any reason. So, if that were to be implemented, I would say that the fast-travel services ("Morrowind-style") should be implemented with it, giving players a choice (choice is good, right) for fast-travel that included no possible interruptions. Also, those services should be able to take you to places you haven't been--after all, you don't have to walk to Las Vegas just to buy a ticket to fly there. This is a way we could combine the two systems and please everyone (or many people). And if necessary, maybe there could be an option in the menus to disable random encounters when using the Oblivion-style FT system, but it causes you to earn less experience or something (like how in Fallout 3, if you selected the "easy" difficulty you earned less XP). To me, that would be the most logical and realistic way of implementing both systems, with advantages and disadvantages to both. Then you pick which method best suits what you need at that time, or prefer to play with. I also like the idea someone suggested of having no health or stamina regeneration when using the Oblivion-style FT system. Even that, alone would be interesting as a disadvantage, if the random encounters are too difficult or time-consuming to implement.

So, to sum up, include both systems, but balance them with advantages and disadvantages. Payment for the Morrowind-style travel system that can't get you everywhere, but can get you to places you haven't explored yet, and random encounters and/or lack of health/fatigue regeneration for the Oblivion-style system that can take you to any location you've been to before, for free. To me, that sounds like an acceptable compromise.

And I'd like to add one last thing: as far as the "don't like it, don't use it" argument is concerned, think about this: do you like the price of gasoline? Because there are alternate methods for you to get to work in the morning. Of course, in the morning, when you need to get to work, you don't really want to walk, or ride a bicycle. You want to get in your car and turn the heater/air conditioner on, crank up the radio, and get there quickly, usually at a speed at least 10 mph over what the posted speed limit is. You probably don't like the "don't like it, don't use it" argument at that point, do you? You only think about it at the moment you have to pay for your gasoline, and at that point you'll be taking it out on the clerk who has absolutely zero control over the price of gas. After all, the law of supply and demand says that you control the price of any item. Don't like the price? Don't buy it. Supply will go up, and price will drop. Of course, when it comes to the choice between driving to work or walking, there really isn't a choice, is there? At least not in the minds of the vast majority. Of course there will always be a certain number of smug people who will say things like "you have no self control! I walk to work every day!" (I suspect many of these people still live with their mothers.) Just as there are people in these threads who continue to supply us with "don't like it, don't use it" posts, as though we've never head that argument before. As a side note, I tried that same argument in a thread about how the leveling system should be revamped because people could just cast a spell at a wall and still gain experience from it. In that context, the argument makes more sense--if you don't want to level up by casting spells at walls, then don't. In that thread though, the idea was considered two points south of silly. I wonder if any of those people like the Oblivion-style fast travel system .....

Major problem with OB fast travel is that is has no cost, consequences, or drawbacks whatsoever. Feather spells lasts, it's a direct line travel wrt speed, etc. Won't go into detail about services, we pretty much agree on what could be there. For me, I'd prefer a Daggerfall style menu of options, which stick or can be saved as default which sets your normal means of travel once and for all. You still get the overview of the travel (i.e. cost, risk and time). And it's a box, just like today, which you have to click on (do you wish - yes/no), except it has more information.

In this box of settings you *can* setup rules which is in accordance to OB fast travel, except if you want to go on foot AND safe to save the money, you will be a lot *SLOWER* than the alternatives, and based on road travel rather than direct line (like in FONV, the roads are much safer than the wilderness). In casual mode, this has no practical issues whatsoever for those who want to travel OB style - it's equal (but in game slower, which shouldn't matter anyhow). But in hardcoe mode, where food, drink, and sleep has some impact, it matters more since it takes longer to stay safe.

OB travelers get what they want (without any form of penalty), and we get our options, either in the form of using the travel dialog in a more realistic way, or going really deep and actually seek out the services ourselves.

I have no objections to intervention spells and scrolls, since they are a great way out of a tricky situation, and more fun than dying. But if mark/recall actually makes it, it shouldn't be as extreme as it used to be:
* Teleport only within same cell. You can't go from inside a dungeon to somewhere in the outside world. That belongs to intervention only.
* Distance potential defined by skill. So if it's easy to come by, it'll take a while to reach it's full potential. A helpful tool, but not ultimate anything.

Hi all. I registered just to reply to this thread, since I think the addition of FT was one of the major reasons why I did not enjoy Oblivion nearly as much as I did Morrowind.



This is very true and a significant conundrum for the TES developers. They want players to explore their world, but many players aren't there for the immersion factor. They want to fight stuff, get loot and experience the story. Nothing wrong with that at all, and failing to cater to those people cuts out a significant portion of potential sales.

Then there are the people like me (and I assume, others) who want to experience the world, explore and figure things out on their own. These are the players who think "what would my character do in this situation?" instead of just doing it. These people don't want to be able to click on a map and be transported to another location, no matter how you try to justify in your mind. There's nothing wrong with this either, both are valid play styles.

What I can't reconcile are those people who say: "If you don't like it, just don't use it." In my experience, this is flawed reasoning because it assumes everyone has the will to resist using FT. I am STRONGLY opposed to including both map-click FT and Morrowind style FT in the game because the temptation for those who "don't like it" will always be there.

Like mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there were many (MANY) times in Morrowind when I was practically begging for a way to fast travel from here to there. When I was loaded down with loot from a dungeon, but hadn't finished exploring it (and forgotten to Mark/Recall), or I needed to talk with a dude on the other side of Vvardenfell just to move along a quest. If map-click FT had been there, I definitely would have used it. However, looking back on my time in Morrowind, I don't remember this minor frustration nearly so much as my hiking journeys through unknown terrain, or travelling routes that became as comfortably familiar as backyard walking trails. In fact, I know that my overall experience and enjoyment reaped from Morrowind was multiplied ten-fold because, just like the real world, places could be dangerous, and travel took time.

As an example, how much less exciting would map-click FT have made the quest where you had to guide the lost Argonian out of the blight to that chapterhouse of Argonian emancipation? It's something like a 45 minute walk, constantly checking to see if they're still following you. To this day, I still remember that was one of the most frustrating quests ever, but also the one I took the MOST joy out of completing. Quests like that just can't exist in a world with map-click FT, and that's a shame.

So I don't think the solution is to include both. I'd venture that a majority of people who hate map-click FT and pine for Morrowind style FT, would be unable to restrain themselves from using map-click FT at least a few times to advance plot/character/quests faster. The mere presence of the ability constantly nags at many of these people. It would be so easy just to warp there and sell my stuff... Like a bad habit, it leaves a guilty feeling behind, but the guilt isn't incentive enough to keep them from using map-click FT again when they "really, really" need it.

But you can't just remove map-click FT, for reasons also stated above. Lots of people like it, and would not enjoy the game without it. These people need to be looked after as well. So I think the best possible solution is a mode change chosen at the start of the game, as described in this post:



This just sounds so perfect to me. The people who want fast travel get it, but those who don't are ACTIVELY prevented from using it, improving their roleplaying experience. If I could vote 10,000 times, all of those votes would be for a mode system exactly like this; Mark/Recall, caravans, paid FT between set points, and not even the tempation to bypass anything through immersion-breaking teleportation.

I cannot support this thread enough. If they give us added forms of travel, we can either flat out ignore it, but preferably using a toggle that is provided in-game to turn off fast travel or use a mod that blocks it for us. If people were able to just "will things" to mind there would never be advltery, embezzlement, people going over the speed limit or second slices of cake ... right? Right?

My biggest concern is that the game was built with fast travel in mind, which means that even if we have our preferred form of travel it could still create issues with playing the game. Just like how quests were made in Oblivion with using the quest compass/map marker in the forefront so that you couldn't choose to use journal notes to explore and complete quests like Morrowind.

I'm in the "Morrowind-Style is good" camp. Pay the money, take your boat, or Strider, or what have you, and get there. But I'd like to add something else.

Mini Travel Previews from Point A to Point B.... For example:

Small clips of your boat, with you on it, setting out on the water, before fading, and having your boat (on the other side) docked at the habor and you having to get off the boat with the other people who travelled with you if any (but at least the option to have SOME) all walking up into town together. Once you click on the option you want to take, the game basically pre-generates a video of all of this happening that it can play on-screen AS IT'S LOADING THE NEXT LOCATION IN THE BACKGROUND. In that way, it can multitask the loading operations while covering over those loading operations with the video that shows your transition. There is no video of your arrival, only your departure. The game records (internally) in game footage of you sitting on your boat, or climbing onto the covered wagon, or sitting on the Silt Strider (or whatever they have like that, Woolly Mammoths perhaps?) and then plays that video while it loads the new location. Here is a more clear description of the idea:

1. You choose a destination from where you are. Say you choose a Woolly Mammoth to take you.
2. You pay the money, the screen fades, but you continue to hear some sounds of the Travel Merchant you just payed telling you to go ahead and climb up there, and some grunting like you're climbing, and the Woolly Mammoth snorts or whines a little)....
3. During this audio portion, the game is recording your video for replay later. It has its cameras building the video from your current location built by its default method for doing so. Maybe there are like 4-6 stock camera angles to randomly choose from.
4. The video fades in of you on the Woolly Mammoth beginning the walk out of town, the ground shaking, pounding, etc ... it's now only a video, having been built internally, so all the textures and objects are dumped as it begins to load in the new scene. The video plays for 6-8 seconds, no longer, helps build immersion, helps sell the idea you are travelling, but shouldn't overwhelm your time to do so too much.
5. The video fades out, and then the new location fades in, with you already having arrived. The Woolly Mammoth is where it usually is, at its docking station, and you are on the ground, ready to continue your quest.

I think the level of technology and intelligence this would require to do this is already here. Even on the consoles, with their additional harddrives, this could be possible. The movies would only be about 512 megs to 1 Gig if saved as "RAW" format (for the fastest possible data dump), and could be deleted the moment after #5 is reached. And what it would add, in my opinion, would be invaluable to the sense of immersion, and make more sense than Oblivion's boring version that always felt like a Star Trek gimmick to me.

I think I saw only one person mention a general teleport-tyoe spell, but the person seemed to be suggesting it sarcastically. But, it seems like a good idea.

The teleport spell could be maybe an alteration spell that improves in range, etc as your skill increases. Maybe at 100th skill level, you could travel anywhere.

Maybe at low levels, you don't teleport at the exact spot you chose, you just end up in the vacinity of it, but as your skill improves you teleport closer to your target. When you cast the spell, the map appears, and wherever you hover with the cursor, a circle appears, designating the area that you will appear in, although it would be anywhere in that circled area.

For those not skilled in alteration, there could be items for sale that teleport, scrolls, etc.

I am very much on the side of immersion. I want to believe that i'm there in the world as much as possible. I use FT alot, and do my best to turn a blind eye to the loss of immersion. I know that FT is not actually teleportaion (as i'm sure the OP knows), but it sure feels like it in every respect.

Making a teleportation spell available in the game might be a good solution for both FT lovers, and immersion lovers.

I really hope they give us alternative fast travel methods instead of the teleport instantly anywhere you want method. There should be travel hubs, then just use your horse from there.

It's probably been said (haven't read through the whole thread) but I want Red Dead Redemption's travel system: something like Oblivion's system, plus something like Morrowind's system, *plus* the ability to use Morrowind's system as real-time transportation, rather than instantaneous.

If theres fast travel in along with paid serviecs then yes!

Which is exactly why I suggested adding a disadvantage to the OB-FT system. Believe me, random encounters would turn me off that thing right away. If you knew that 50% of the time, you weren't going to just "show up" at your destination, but were instead going to have to deal with a leveled-list random encounter first, I'd choose to walk to the boat first.