The "We Want Fast Travel Alternatives" Thread : V - Skyrim

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:36 am

My opinion as I've said before would be travel services that fast travel you from one place to another should be there yes. But fast travel on ones own should also be there and not be toggleable. Services/Travelling on your own should both form the basis of the game's fast travelling, each one having different advantages/disadvantages. Finally spells should certainly be there, because in the end, if any of these should be there, it's the spells..

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:36 pm

Wow, why does everyone always have the same stupid answer. "If you don't want to use it than don't, der her herrr." Look here is why, we want to travel fast, but we don't want to ruin our immersion. Fast travel ruins immersion because it feels like cheating your way to another area. Travel services don't ruin immersion because it's an in-game presence that you need to pay for. Remember in morrowind when you had no money and had to sell stuff just to get 30 some gp to travel to your destination. That feels real and has limitations that make the game feel more natural. But why would I spend money to go to a limited area and then embark onto another area when i can poof right there. Here is the point, fast travel is too tempting to resist, and once we give in we start to ruin our immersion and have to fight to get it back. Traveling in morrowind could be a chore but over the period of time it took to get to different places you grew to appreciate it.

So instead of saying "if you don't want it, don't use it" why not say "If you don't want it, than turn it off!" this is all we want, a substitution for those who like to explore and to not be tempted to ruin our game.

Not to mention the minor hiccup that Oblivion had - the entire game revolved around fast travel. "Here, go to this cave to get this thing. It's on the other side of Tamriel. It should only take you five minutes!"

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:50 am

Wow, why does everyone always have the same stupid answer. "If you don't want to use it than don't, der her herrr." Look here is why, we want to travel fast, but we don't want to ruin our immersion. Fast travel ruins immersion because it feels like cheating your way to another area. Travel services don't ruin immersion because it's an in-game presence that you need to pay for. Remember in morrowind when you had no money and had to sell stuff just to get 30 some gp to travel to your destination. That feels real and has limitations that make the game feel more natural. But why would I spend money to go to a limited area and then embark onto another area when i can poof right there. Here is the point, fast travel is too tempting to resist, and once we give in we start to ruin our immersion and have to fight to get it back. Traveling in morrowind could be a chore but over the period of time it took to get to different places you grew to appreciate it.

So instead of saying "if you don't want it, don't use it" why not say "If you don't want it, than turn it off!" this is all we want, a substitution for those who like to explore and to not be tempted to ruin our game.

Seriously, if you can't resist clicking the "Fast Travel" button, I highly doubt you have the willpower to refrain from clicking the "Turn Fast Travel On" button.

I'm all for a Morrowind style alternative, but what's the point of having an option to turn it off??

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:10 am

Seriously, if you can't resist clicking the "Fast Travel" button, I highly doubt you have the willpower to refrain from clicking the "Turn Fast Travel On" button.

I'm all for a Morrowind style alternative, but what's the point of having an option to turn it off??

Once you've gone to the menu (probably before even starting your first new game) and turned it off you never come to rely on it

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:08 pm

Seriously, if you can't resist clicking the "Fast Travel" button, I highly doubt you have the willpower to refrain from clicking the "Turn Fast Travel On" button.

I'm all for a Morrowind style alternative, but what's the point of having an option to turn it off??

I agree with this ^

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:29 pm

Not to mention the minor hiccup that Oblivion had - the entire game revolved around fast travel. "Here, go to this cave to get this thing. It's on the other side of Tamriel. It should only take you five minutes!"

There's also another thing : since there was fast travel, there was nothing to motivate making travelling by foot any less than boring... Which in turn made people use fast travel.

Morrowind was empty, yes, but with mighty pretty varied lands, and you could chance on people like that naked-nord guy. Maybe I missed it, but was there anything like it in Oblivion ?

Also, is it me or do we sound like a group of rather weird fetichists ?

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:34 am

Also, is it me or do we sound like a group of rather weird fetichists ?

More naked nords!

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:33 am

There's also another thing : since there was fast travel, there was nothing to motivate making travelling by foot any less than boring... Which in turn made people use fast travel.

Morrowind was empty, yes, but with mighty pretty varied lands, and you could chance on people like that naked-nord guy. Maybe I missed it, but was there anything like it in Oblivion ?

Also, is it me or do we sound like a group of rather weird fetichists ?

And how will having an option to turn fast travel off solve this problem?? By your logic the game will still be "centered around fast travel" if there's an option to turn it off. Especially seeing as fast travel is optional in Oblivion. :shrug:

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:28 am

Seriously, if you can't resist clicking the "Fast Travel" button, I highly doubt you have the willpower to refrain from clicking the "Turn Fast Travel On" button.

I'm all for a Morrowind style alternative, but what's the point of having an option to turn it off??

That was my point about the toggle as well, it could be made so that if you start with it on and you turn it off you can not turn it back on, but then there would be people complaining that they just turned it off to mess around for a few hours and now their game is 'ruined' because they can not resist the temptation of fast traveling and it is not disabled, or you could have it set up where you can switch it on or off whenever but that is basiclly like moving the cookies into the other room. I am sure as hell not going to stop eating cookies but dammit I will be pissed I have to walk so far for em.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:38 pm

You have trouble empathising with people who don't agree with you I see. Well, good luck in life.

The spell operates within the confines of the world and requires the thought of where to place your teleport marker, and has the restriction of only being able to teleport to where you've set your marker. If you can't see why people might find that more immersive then really we aren't going to get very far at all in this thread...

Please resist the urge to flame. It accomplishes nothing and makes us all look bad. Any disagreement can be solved with either calm, polite use of logic. If they refuse to cooperate, then they are only here to get us off topic.

Toggle would only be a worst-case scenario, if nothing better was set up.

Am I the only one to think that maybe, fast-travel will gain an in-game explanation by this "teleportation" dragonshout ? Provided it does have some form of limit and/or cost (no "hey, that's the first shout you get and contrary to all other, you can use it as much as you want"), I could live with that.

What I wish for is other means - a full network. There's bound to be mages guilds, for one thing ; boats alongside the coast could be another thing. I like caravans : I'd love to have some form of mini-quest where you can travel for free provided you act as a guard for the travellers.

The Dragonshout is going to be (not confirmed but this seems to be the general consensus) a spell that instantly moves you to where it hits. That is what most people seem to think anyways.

Not sure if this warrants its own thread. There are plenty of other threads open about it. :shrug:

Also, your script doesn't work. Not to mention they have to animate the spell, do the special effects, do the sound etc. etc. So never mind the fact it's more than a 5 minute job, still probably just post it in one of the other threads. And yeah, fast travel is optional. What's the difference between having an option to turn if off and to simply not choosing to click "Fast Travel"??

I would however like to see caravans, etc, something like a Morrowind fast travel service, as an optional alternative to fast travel.

:D

The difference between this thread and others is they discuss whether or not Fast Travel should be in. This one says it should be in, but we should get an alternative because open world RPGs are about choice. You are right about the script not working I messed up on a part of it. I'll fix it. And you are right that it needs animations, effects, and sounds. But the animation would be the same one used on any "self" spell so that isn't a factor. Other than that the sound could be copied from another magic effect, I think some of the sounds in Oblivion were duplicates, plus I'm sure no one would mind or really even notice. The last part is the effect which could take a few more minutes, at the very least they can color swap an existing effect. Like I said, I doubt most people would mind lol.

Well maybe we don't need it turned off, just having the alternatives would help many people not use it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:42 pm

I definately want fast travel in the form of a transportation network (caravans, boats, guild guides etc) also with the inclusion of intervention and mark/recall spells.
I dont really mind if it can be toggled on or off, i just want an alternative to oblivions point at the map and teleport fast travel.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:01 pm

And how will having an option to turn fast travel off solve this problem?? By your logic the game will still be "centered around fast travel" if there's an option to turn it off. Especially seeing as fast travel is optional in Oblivion. :shrug:

Why would you want to have two different systems active at the same time? Fast travel is not needed if there are travel services.
It would also stop some people from cheating. (And no, not me. I have this so called "Self control")

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:03 pm

Please resist the urge to flame. It accomplishes nothing and makes us all look bad. Any disagreement can be solved with either calm, polite use of logic. If they refuse to cooperate, then they are only here to get us off topic.

That wasn't flaming.

Oh ho no, that was not flaming. I agree though. Politeness shall prevail. Let us press on.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:34 pm

And how will having an option to turn fast travel off solve this problem?? By your logic the game will still be "centered around fast travel" if there's an option to turn it off. Especially seeing as fast travel is optional in Oblivion. :shrug:

I spoke more highly of having a network of in-game means. But this or toggable fast travel, it amounts to the same thing in the conception of the game : the creators will have to keep in mind that some people at least will choose to turn off fast travel ; or the varied modes of transportations will imply different travel paths, which forces to think about stuff you can meet on the way. Much more different than conceiving a whole game around an always there, all-powerful click-on-the-map device.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:50 am

Just thinking... it would be awesome if you could meet the travel-service whatevers (Dwemer minibuses?) out in the countryside, and ask to hitch along to wherever they were headed. It would liven up the wilderness, there weren't enough people travelling from city to city in Morrowind / Oblivion.

And in Oblivion, the few that did travel generally walked. Which kind of destroyed my sense of scale.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:34 am

I've posted this before, but here's my ultimate vision for how the system could/should work. it's pretty complex but hopefully I'll be able to mod this in after Skyrim is released.

YOU CHOOSE TWO OPTIONS WHEN STARTING THE GAME: Fast-travel enabled, or fast-travel disabled. To go back on this you have to start a new character from scratch so you can stick with your choices from the beginning. This helps eliminate the 'fast-travel temptation' so many weak-willed individuals talk about. I myself have never had this problem and have never fast-traveled in Oblivion. always walking or riding to my destination, however not everyone can do that.

If you disable fast-travel, how will you get around? All of these options are available if you have fast travel enabled however they cost money.

MODES OF TRANSPORTATION

Manual Travel (player manually controls the journey the whole way):

1. Walking/Running: this is how you will get to most remote locations that don't have roads or pathways. Free.
2. Mount: Horses, donkeys, etc that you can purchase, just like Oblivion. You can use these to go pretty much anywhere as you might expect. Free, except for purchase price of mount, unless stolen.
3. Rowboat: Like a mount, for rivers, tributaries and the ocean. Free, except for purchase price of boat, unless stolen.

Automated Travel (player can experience the entire journey but can also opt to 'sleep through it' like GTA4's system):

3. Guide-mount: This is the first automated travel system. A guide walks the mount for you as you sit on the back. It is the cheapest, slowest and it can travel on small dirt pathways, large pathways and major roads. Guides can be found at major cities, towns and minor settlements. Chance for random encounter (creature attack, bandits/thieves, etc.) is high.
4. Wagon/Cart: Also automated, you hitch a ride with a merchant or goods transport caravan. It is medium priced, medium speed and can travel everything except small dirt pathways. Caravans can be found at towns and cities. Chance for random encounter is medium. You can meet other NPCs on this journey.
5. Carriage: Travel in luxury and safety. High priced and pay more for armed escort (reduces random encounter chance even further), but it's the fastest land transport. They can only be found at major cities. Random encounter chance is low and even lower with armed escort. You can meet other NPCs on this journey.
6. Sailboat/Ship: For travel between port towns and cities. Virtually no random encounter chance, pricey, fast but only useful for coastal or larger river towns/cities. Ports can be found in places other than just cities however.

NOTE: You can hitch a ride with 3, 4 and 5 if you meet them on the roads. They will transport NPCs from place to place without you. You can also get off/out at any time on the road but you will still pay full price.

Magical Travel:

7. Mage guild teleports: much like Morrowind's system, you have to be part of the Mage's guilds (in Skyrim's case; College of Whispers/Synod). The guild will charge you pretty high prices but it will be less and less the higher rank you are.
8. Ancient Dwemer conduits or something similar: Perhaps you need some kind of reagent to use these and there should be a quest to unlock them, similar to the Propylons in Morrowind.
9. Mark/Recall: Bring it back but make it harder to obtain/use.

There should be NO ranger guides to remote locations, that is on you. So how do you get to that remote ruin you just came from back from? You walk or ride there! It's why you turned off fast-travel in the first place, svck it up!

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:18 am

Why would you want to have two different systems active at the same time? Fast travel is not needed if there are travel services.
It would also stop some people from cheating. (And no, not me. I have this so called "Self control")

Because, being the business that Bethesda is (albeit one of the less money grabby ones), they want to please as many people as possible. A lot of people want to be able to just click and fast travel somewhere. A lot of other people want to be able to pay someone to take them somewhere. Seeing as both are completely optional, it makes sense to have both.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:10 pm

http://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/23730564544598016

oh snap Morrowind players just got served

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:54 pm

Fast travel is by far the best thing about oblivion. I don't see any logical reason to remove it. Because you know when all those reviews come out and the score suffers because some joker thought"remove it and make them take boat A to town B rent horse to town C take boat from town C to....." what a waste of time. I could play skyrim without fast travel but most people would drop it like a hot potato. If i was a reviewer for made up name weekly would I spend all my precious review time playing a game where it takes 10min plus going from one side of the map to the other which I was just already at. Nope I give the game a 7.5 move on to uncharted 3 and the other 5 or 6 games I would have to review before Christmas and GOTY.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:15 am

I don't mind fast travel being in game, but that does not excuse them from making mark recall spells and public transportation system. These two things are both an alternative for thous who do not want to use fast travel, and an immersion factor.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:20 pm

oh snap Morrowind players just got served

No, no they did not. Pete Hines made an epic fail. That's all that happened. I'm still on the Morrowind side of the debate

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:16 pm

Fast travel is by far the best thing about oblivion. I don't see any logical reason to remove it. Because you know when all those reviews come out and the score suffers because some joker thought"remove it and make them take boat A to town B rent horse to town C take boat from town C to....." what a waste of time. I could play skyrim without fast travel but most people would drop it like a hot potato. If i was a reviewer for made up name weekly would I spend all my precious review time playing a game where it takes 10min plus going from one side of the map to the other which I was just already at. Nope I give the game a 7.5 move on to uncharted 3 and the other 5 or 6 games I would have to review before Christmas and GOTY.

Good point but noone here thinks just take fast travel out all we want is an allternitive that is not walking or riding a horse. The lack of public transportation in Oblivion was a big immersion braker for me but i did like fast travel just not all the freakin time.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:30 pm

Yes please to mark, recall, intervention spells and mages guild portals.

I don't like to use the fast travel and would appreciate these things.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:24 pm

Fast travel is by far the best thing about oblivion. I don't see any logical reason to remove it. Because you know when all those reviews come out and the score suffers because some joker thought"remove it and make them take boat A to town B rent horse to town C take boat from town C to....." what a waste of time. I could play skyrim without fast travel but most people would drop it like a hot potato. If i was a reviewer for made up name weekly would I spend all my precious review time playing a game where it takes 10min plus going from one side of the map to the other which I was just already at. Nope I give the game a 7.5 move on to uncharted 3 and the other 5 or 6 games I would have to review before Christmas and GOTY.

THIS ^^^^ is exactly why I said we don't want it removed, we just want alternatives. We are perfectly fine with it being in, we just want an alternative so we don't have the choice you mentioned between having to walk or using fast travel. Just an alternative that can only bring us specific spots.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:15 pm

No, no they did not. Pete Hines made an epic fail. That's all that happened. I'm still on the Morrowind side of the debate

Indeed. I admit to being more than annoyed at hearing that tired senseless argument from him.