[Roberto Gaeta]

I would most definitely prefer a scenic route with a caravan and the option to hire an escort from, what I would like to have, a mercenary guild. This would of course be arranged through your "travel agent" who arranges for you to join a caravan. That being said I have had a good source confirm that we will have the fallout/oblivion fast travel system.

[Charlotte X]

Oh dear, not this again.

Seriously, give it a rest. I wonder when we'll finally get a day when this thread doesn't show up. Stop moaning and be grateful for the things that they DO put in.

This I have to agree with! Dang not one day have I opened this forum up and not seen a no fast travel thread.

[bonita mathews]

Since Cyrodiil was supposed to be several hundred miles across, which would take weeks to traverse, I don't understand why OB allowed travel by FOOT between the distant cities. Either that, or the game should have been confined to the relatively small island on which the Imperial City was built, much the way that MW was confined to the island of Vvardenfell within MW province.

The problem as I see it is NOT that FT exists, it's that all of the other "believable" and "normal" methods of transportation didn't exist in the game world. MW had a variety of travel options, with the majestic Silt Striders towering over the landscape, the various size boats in the harbors, and Guild Guides on station at each of the Mages Guilds. OB had a few stables with a couple of horses to handle the entire transportation needs of the vast heartland of the Empire, and a pair of galleons in the harbor, one of them converted into an Inn. Obviously, people don't travel in Cyrodiil. Silly, just silly.

How do you RP "using" public transport if it's conspicuously absent? It's not "optional" if the natural alternatives are blatantly missing.

Unfortunately, from more and more of what I'm hearing about this upcoming game, it's being geared to be even farther from the RPG side, and closer to the FPS action/adventure side. I'll feel relieved if we get to keep more than half of what we had in OB, much less get back any of what was lost from DF and MW. I can picture it now in TES VI: no skills, no Attributes, no challenges; just press the big red "I WIN" button. An extensive tutorial is included, to show you how to press the big red "I WIN" button. Oh, FT will be "optional", except that they've taken out any places to travel to.

[Emma Copeland]

There is a word for the "Morrowind-style" fast travel:

intradiegetic

Meaning "inside the narrative". Extradiegetic is its opposite; Oblivion's fast travel would be qualified as such.

I want intradiegetic fast travel for better immersion.

very insightful, and comely put. That is the heart of the morrowind side of the argument, we just want everything to stay inside the narrative.

[Tamara Primo]

This I have to agree with! Dang not one day have I opened this forum up and not seen a no fast travel thread.

Geez, I wonder why. :tongue:

[Emmie Cate]

There is a word for the "Morrowind-style" fast travel:

intradiegetic

Meaning "inside the narrative". Extradiegetic is its opposite; Oblivion's fast travel would be qualified as such.

I want intradiegetic fast travel for better immersion.

This has been saved to notepad and will be quoted often, thank you good sir. :goodjob:

[Elle H]

There is a word for the "Morrowind-style" fast travel:

intradiegetic

Meaning "inside the narrative". Extradiegetic is its opposite; Oblivion's fast travel would be qualified as such.

I want intradiegetic fast travel for better immersion.

Nicely said!

[Steve Fallon]

well..... why can't you?

Yeah I suppose he could. I mean why not even go further, and just pretend he has the game in the first place? It would sure save him a lot of money and he could even be the first to play Skyrim! It's brilliant!

:rolleyes:

[Dan Scott]

The cry of the apathetic?

More the cry of, "Stop flogging this horse".

[Lucy]

mark and recall ..................but ability to mark more than one place. i'll give it a limit of 5 and when you use recall your map or a list comes up with the spots and you pick one..... and you can guess the rest.

[Matt Terry]

There is a word for the "Morrowind-style" fast travel:

intradiegetic

Meaning "inside the narrative". Extradiegetic is its opposite; Oblivion's fast travel would be qualified as such.

I want intradiegetic fast travel for better immersion.

So we have two scenes.
Scene number one. One man is talking to a caravan guide. So.. where are you going? To Daggerfall.. next scene in the city..
Scene number two.. someone opens his map looking at it and saying.. next stop.. Daggerfalll.. map shows Daggerfall.. next scene in the city..

So one of those is inside the narrative while the other one isn't. Not from where I see it. As fas as I can see their difference is something quite simple.. when one decides to travel on his/her own they don't need to talk to anyone about it. The two systems can co-exist and both be immersive. What you need is a good presentation, and depict the differences that exist between the two modes (one takes more ingame time unless you have a good horse, is cheaper, is more tiring, can be more dangerous).

[His Bella]

Silt Strider.

[Stephani Silva]

I think morrowind had it perfect. Hopefully we will get something like that; with intervention, recall, and mammoths (instead of silt striders).

I don't really like the "toggle" idea unless it is included in a hardcoe mode.

[Amanda Leis]

So we have two scenes.
Scene number one. One man is talking to a caravan guide. So.. where are you going? To Daggerfall.. next scene in the city..
Scene number two.. someone opens his map looking at it and saying.. next stop.. Daggerfalll.. map shows Daggerfall.. next scene in the city..

So one of those is inside the narrative while the other one isn't. Not from where I see it. As fas as I can see their difference is something quite simple.. when one decides to travel on his/her own they don't need to talk to anyone about it. The two systems can co-exist and both be immersive. What you need is a good presentation, and depict the differences that exist between the two modes (one takes more ingame time unless you have a good horse, is cheaper, is more tiring, can be more dangerous).

Morrowind's fast travel is explained inside its reality. You either pay for the silt strider, the mage's teleportation devices, or use mark and recall. In Oblivion, the player has to open the menu (which is itself extradiegetic; the residents of Tamriel don't open "menus" to do jack), picks a spot on the map and "teleport" there instantly. Bam. Just like that. No reason, logic or explanation given. Sure, one could "just pretend" something something blah blah, but that's fallacy.

[Stephanie I]

mark and recall ..................but ability to mark more than one place. i'll give it a limit of 5 and when you use recall your map or a list comes up with the spots and you pick one..... and you can guess the rest.

I disagree. Only one. As it used to be. It's a great tool but it shouldn't be the only tool you'd have to rely on.

[Claire Jackson]

Morrowind's fast travel is explained inside its reality. You either pay for the silt strider, the mage's teleportation devices, or use mark and recall. In Oblivion, the player has to open the menu (which is itself extradiegetic; the residents of Tamriel don't open "menus" to do jack), picks a spot on the map and "teleport" there instantly. Bam. Just like that. No reason, logic or explanation given. Sure, one could "just pretend" something something blah blah, but that's fallacy.

So... Give the Dragonborn a magic stone that lets him teleport to previously visited locations?

[rolanda h]

Something like this was in Daggerfall. It really suited that game due to the immense size of the landmass. In Skyrim, it may be a bit lost though. I wouldn't expect it to take more then a few days to walk from one end of Skyrim to the other, so planning out the travel speed, where to rest, etc., may be a little unnecessary. Although it does make me think of a fast travel option that can please both parties

Yes, Daggerfall suited "better", but there are many mechanics to make a trip last longer:
* No regen. Could be an issue for those manually traveling and relying on feather spell.
* Have a cart or a cart and a horse to carry loot? Your speed is lowered, but you can carry loot.
* Need for nutrition. There can be areas where this is low access, slowing you down.
* Potions to compensate? Sure, but that would then be the cost.
* Maybe bandits are hyperactive at night? Better travel only during daytime.
* Services only open for certain times a week and only a couple of runs each day?
* Mages guilds (extremely convenient due cities), require someone to push the buttons. So, delay for night.
* Propylon you first have to find. Once you do, nice alternative.
* Avalanches blocking the way. Probably hard for a dilligence service to get through.

The point is, by doing it fully manually (like today NOT using fast travel), the price is the workload required, the tediousness of doing so, but the big reward is less time goes by in the game world.

Using "Fast Travel" in the game (depending on options), will be far less tedious to do and quicker to perform in the real world, but the price to pay is that more time will pass by in the game world.

Interface:
Unlike Morrowind where the player had to take notes on where everything went and at what times, this should be accounted for and shown directly on screen for the character. Once he know that Town A is connected to Town B via boats or dilligence (and that route has been cleared of bandits or whatever), that route will be selected and shown automatically on the map, depending on travel settings naturally.

Hovering over a location you've visited before, game will depict the route coded with means of travel. Going from your current location to another may involve:
* Walking from current location to nearest stable.
* Dilligence from stable to town A.
* Dilligence from town A to town B, but since it's not in you'll have to wait a day there.
* Walk from town B to town C, since settings dictate you want to go as fast as possible, waiting is this time slower than walking, and you're ok with some risk.
* Walk from town C to destination, as there are no services for this portion.

Red route shown (highlighted road) for risky parts of the route, like walking.
Green route shown (highlighted road) for safe parts of the route, like travel services.
Blue route shown for travel across ocean
Yellow route shown (curved arrow not on roads) for teleportation based distances, like mage teleportation.

I'm seeing a problem though if we have Dilligence based travel and Mages guild travel, if everything is present in the same towns, as they make eachother completely redundant. So maybe instead of Mages guild based teleportation, we get back witch covens which offer these kinds of services? Dunno, just throwing in wild ideas here

[Mandy Muir]

Morrowind's fast travel is explained inside its reality. You either pay for the silt strider, the mage's teleportation devices, or use mark and recall. In Oblivion, the player has to open the menu (which is itself extradiegetic; the residents of Tamriel don't open "menus" to do jack), picks a spot on the map and "teleport" there instantly. Bam. Just like that. No reason, logic or explanation given. Sure, one could "just pretend" something something blah blah, but that's fallacy.

The player has to open the map, just like the character would have to in order to navigate himself. It's still a narrative from the character's perspective. As for the way he gets wherever he gets...walking or by horse. Those two methods of travel need a way of fast traveling too. Just give them the advantages/disadvantages this form of travel would get, and its set.

[Silencio]

Silt Strider.

BOATS/SHIPS

[lucile davignon]

i think i would rather have the morrowind style of fast travel but it isn't a must.

Can you guys answer a question, how is it not already optional, the game dosen't do it for you, you are the one the picked the location you are the one that clicked A and then clicked A on yes i want to fast travel to this location, you aren't being forced to do it

[Crystal Birch]

Fast travel is by far the best thing about oblivion. I don't see any logical reason to remove it. Because you know when all those reviews come out and the score suffers because some joker thought"remove it and make them take boat A to town B rent horse to town C take boat from town C to....." what a waste of time. I could play skyrim without fast travel but most people would drop it like a hot potato. If i was a reviewer for made up name weekly would I spend all my precious review time playing a game where it takes 10min plus going from one side of the map to the other which I was just already at. Nope I give the game a 7.5 move on to uncharted 3 and the other 5 or 6 games I would have to review before Christmas and GOTY.

If 12 million people can pay an NPC to fly them to a city (and suffer through the whole flight, it's not instant), wait 5 minutes for boat/zepplin to come and take them to another continent, then pay another NPC to slowly fly them over to their destination in WoW. I think we can svck it up to have a more immersive traveling system that Morrowind had.

[bimsy]

I agree with everything in your OP, except...


You shouldn't be looking at these options as additional time and resources. They should be considered part of the standard design process, not something they're tagging on to appease people.

Fast travel is by far the best thing about oblivion. I don't see any logical reason to remove it. Because you know when all those reviews come out and the score suffers because some joker thought"remove it and make them take boat A to town B rent horse to town C take boat from town C to....." what a waste of time. I could play skyrim without fast travel but most people would drop it like a hot potato. If i was a reviewer for made up name weekly would I spend all my precious review time playing a game where it takes 10min plus going from one side of the map to the other which I was just already at. Nope I give the game a 7.5 move on to uncharted 3 and the other 5 or 6 games I would have to review before Christmas and GOTY.

And if I were a reviewer, I'd praise them for learning from past games and returning to a logical and immersive transport system. If that was such a bad transport mechanic, why did it work so well in Morrowind?

[Gwen]

I think morrowind had it perfect. Hopefully we will get something like that; with intervention, recall, and mammoths (instead of silt striders).

I don't really like the "toggle" idea unless it is included in a hardcoe mode.

All of this is what I talked about in an older thread, I just wished we could cast more than one mark spell, say about three to five. It would be great to ride mammoths. :touched:

[Alkira rose Nankivell]

And if I were a reviewer, I'd praise them for learning from past games and returning to a logical and immersive transport system. If that was such a bad transport mechanic, why did it work so well in Morrowind?

For the casual player, it didn't work too well in Morrowind, as you'd actually have to sketch up how things were connected, or keep switching to a map once it became available:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:FullMap_TravelRoutes.png
The way I proposed it, to suit the casual player, is that when you hover over a target location, the applicable routes (*how* do I get there) will show up automatically. The settings box will also show how much the travel will cost him, estimated time enroute, and estimated time of arrival, which may be important for quests with a time limit. For us wanting the Morrowind style, we get to have it, pluss the added benefit of showing routes (it should be character knowledge, not player knowledge).

So given the casual player is ready to fork up the money and spend additional game time (like us manual travelers), he will get the same system he gets in Oblivion minus the exploits.

Even Warfare, a *casual* game mode for Arma 2 which covers around 200 square kilometers, has less trivial fast travel system than Oblivion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciptlMsKUcE - that's to the closest neighboring town. I think the "travel sequence" should be around 10-15 seconds, there is no way that can be tedious.

[Ellie English]

Morrowind's fast travel is explained inside its reality. You either pay for the silt strider, the mage's teleportation devices, or use mark and recall. In Oblivion, the player has to open the menu (which is itself extradiegetic; the residents of Tamriel don't open "menus" to do jack), picks a spot on the map and "teleport" there instantly. Bam. Just like that. No reason, logic or explanation given. Sure, one could "just pretend" something something blah blah, but that's fallacy.

Indeed. You had to 'pretend' a lot in Oblivion. Reminds me of the Oblivion wiki roleplaying page, so funny.

For the casual player, it didn't work too well in Morrowind, as you'd actually have to sketch up how things were connected, or keep switching to a map once it became available:
http://www.uesp.net/...ravelRoutes.png

Wow, that's so hard to recreate in your mind! I was 12 FFS. Unless these casual gamers are retards, which they aren't, because they're just regular folks, I see no reason why remembering how the transport system connects should be hard.