The "We Want Fast Travel Alternatives" Thread

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:23 pm

This is a topic I have posted before but it was locked because there was already a fast travel discussion thread. I was told to wait on reposting this until there wasn't a fast travel topic on the main page so today is my lucky day.

I have seen a lot of threads suggesting reasons why Fast Travel is or is not a good thing. There seems to be a resounding voice asking for an alternative to the simple Click and Go method in Oblivion and Fallout 3. So I decided to make this thread for all of us who want an alternative to voice our opinion in a thread where we aren't discussing whether or not Skyrim should have it, but that we DO WANT it. We don't want Fast Travel removed. We want the option to turn it off, or at the very least want alternatives to it so we can resist the temptation to use it.

Some general rules (or at least requests):

1. If you don't want an alternative to fast travel, please don't post here. You already have what you want, there is no reason to troll people who are saying what they want.

2. If someone is posting here saying that Fast Travel is fine the way it is or is flaming/trolling, please do your best to just ignore them.

3. We cannot predict the functionality of the new engine, so any examples will most likely relate to the Gamebryo Engine. I am an experienced Oblivion modder, so it is all based on how fast I can do things. It is faster then a person new to modding and not as fast as someone who made the game.

What Exactly do we Want?

A Toggle Option for Fast Travel (Like I said, we don't want it gone)
Travel Alternatives at Major Cities (Caravan guides, mage guild portals, etc.)
Mark and Recall

In-depth Looks at our Wants

Toggle Option

There have been many mods that remove Fast Travel from Oblivion and Fallout 3. The mods that do this are small, less than 10 KB. That is less than 1/100 of a percent of a standard DVD. Most DVDs used for games are Dual Layered, which means it has about twice as much space as a standard DVD. Granted, making it a toggle option would take up a bit more space but from my (albeit minimal) experience in building menus in games and applications it would in no way be large enough or take long enough to detract from any other gameplay elements. This is the kind of thing that is made in an hour or two.

Travel Alternatives

This would take a bit more than making a Fast Travel Toggle Option. Depending on how it is done it could take minimal resources or quite a few resources. Let's anolyze the options I listed above:

Caravan Guide - An NPC for each city which takes a few minutes to create, clothe, and put in the game world per NPC. A faction or some way to determine what NPCs offer travel services so guards aren't accidentally hirable. That is another minute. Putting a simple quest that gives the NPCs dialog and then giving the PC options to respond based on where he is and how much money he has. This would take another 10 minutes. The longest part would be getting the dialog voiced by each of the proper voice actors. That would be the longest and most expensive part.

Mage Guild Portals - First things first would be making a model. I haven't done any modelling myself so I can't give an accurate estimate here. I would have to say the model and textures in the hands of a pro would take a few hours. From there it is easy. A simple script that asks you what guild you want to go to takes a few minutes.

Mark and Recall

The easiest choice to make.You make an invisible marker for the "Mark", then you give a spell a script effect, an example of which is in the code tag below. Then you either make it a starting spell or put it in a spell vendor's inventory. 5 minutes.

scn MarkAndRecallshort ChoiceBegin ScriptEffectStartMessagebox "Do you want to travel to your Mark or set a new Mark?", "Travel to Mark", "Set New Mark", "Cancel"EndBegin ScriptEffectUpdateSet Choice to GetButtonPressedEndBegin ScriptEffectFinishIf Choice == 0player.MoveTo MarkRecallMarkerElseIf Choice == 1MarkRecallMarker.MoveTo playerElseIf Choice == 2ReturnEndIfEnd


Otherwise the effects can be split between two spells similar to Morrowind.

That is the summary of at least my thoughts on this issue. Feel free to voice support, share ideas, etc.

Edit: Some tweaking on the script.
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Rowena
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:18 pm

http://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/23730564544598016
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Janine Rose
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:31 pm

Why can't you just use fast travel from city to city and pretend to hop on a bus?
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Mimi BC
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:33 pm

http://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/23730564544598016


Exactly the point of this thread. I have seen that Twitter post in numerous threads and I think it is udder crap. Just because something similar exists doesn't mean something shouldn't be implemented. If the world was like this we would all have the same car, the same clothes, and (god forbid) the same gaming system. Probably a Wii too because Nintendo beat Microsoft and Sony to the console game. I shudder to think of a world like this.
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FLYBOYLEAK
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:11 pm

Why can't you just use fast travel from city to city and pretend to hop on a bus?

Oh here we go again.

Why can't you just use bows and pretend that you're shooting a crossbow?
Why can't you just pretend that you don't start in prison?
Why can't you just pretend that you can't join every guild in the game without penalties?
Why can't you just pretend that fast travel doesn't exist, even though the game is build around people using it?
Why can't you just sing over the ending of the game if you don't like it?
Why can't you just pretend that that sword is a spear?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. My imagination has a limit on the extent to which it can ignore what the game is telling me. "Just pretend" is not a viable solution to bad game design, and I wish people would stop spouting it.
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Holli Dillon
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:55 pm

There is one big difference between "fast travel" and Mark and Recall or the other various teleportation spells and services. That is the passage of time. The spells are instantaneous.
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Cheryl Rice
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 12:53 pm

One thing I want that is not mentioned in OP: intervention spells!
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neen
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:15 pm

I totally agree that there should be an alternative to fast travel for those of us who do not want to use it, however I also think that Mark/Recall and toggle ability are unnecessary. For the toggle option would you be able to change from 'no fast travel' to 'fast travel' in the middle of a game? I would hate for someone to start off their game thinking, yeah that will be fun only to realize 30 hours in they do not like it. They need to be able to switch but that brings in the possibility of people just switching it on/off because they are 'tempted' to use it. If you are so 'tempted' that you can not just ignore it you should probably just use it.

As for Mark and Recall I am not so decided. It seems like a waste of a spell and for those who want it I am not sure why you are so opposed to fast travel? I didn't use it much in MW and it seems just as 'cheap' imho.

I hope you do not see this as flaming or anything because I really didn't mean for it to come off that way.
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jasminε
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 4:20 am

Not sure if this warrants its own thread. There are plenty of other threads open about it. :shrug:

Also, your script doesn't work. Not to mention they have to animate the spell, do the special effects, do the sound etc. etc. So never mind the fact it's more than a 5 minute job, still probably just post it in one of the other threads. And yeah, fast travel is optional. What's the difference between having an option to turn if off and to simply not choosing to click "Fast Travel"??

I would however like to see caravans, etc, something like a Morrowind fast travel service, as an optional alternative to fast travel.

:D
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Timara White
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:42 am

Why can't you just use fast travel from city to city and pretend to hop on a bus?

This. Seriously if you can't get over the OPTIONAL fast travel then you are a weak human being.
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Dominic Vaughan
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:06 pm

As for Mark and Recall I am not so decided. It seems like a waste of a spell and for those who want it I am not sure why you are so opposed to fast travel? I didn't use it much in MW and it seems just as 'cheap' imho.


Because it is a game mechanic that does not break immersion for some people. It's one thing to open up the map, click an icon and "poof" you're there. It's a totally different thing to cast a spell and "poof" you're there.
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Maria Garcia
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:44 am

Because it is a game mechanic that does not break immersion for some people. It's one thing to open up the map, click an icon and "poof" you're there. It's a totally different thing to cast a spell and "poof" you're there.


I hope you are being sarcastic.
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natalie mccormick
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:39 pm

I hope you are being sarcastic.


I wish I were.
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Nick Jase Mason
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:45 am

I totally agree that there should be an alternative to fast travel for those of us who do not want to use it, however I also think that Mark/Recall and toggle ability are unnecessary. For the toggle option would you be able to change from 'no fast travel' to 'fast travel' in the middle of a game? I would hate for someone to start off their game thinking, yeah that will be fun only to realize 30 hours in they do not like it. They need to be able to switch but that brings in the possibility of people just switching it on/off because they are 'tempted' to use it. If you are so 'tempted' that you can not just ignore it you should probably just use it.

As for Mark and Recall I am not so decided. It seems like a waste of a spell and for those who want it I am not sure why you are so opposed to fast travel? I didn't use it much in MW and it seems just as 'cheap' imho.

I hope you do not see this as flaming or anything because I really didn't mean for it to come off that way.


Yeah the Toggle Option would be something in the options menu under the difficulty slider or something. And to answer your question on Mark and Recall it offers a few functions that aren't feasible through fast travel. One of the features of Mark and Recall is you can use it in interior cells. This means for the dungeon diver you can cast it at the beginning of the dungeon and when you get to the last area you can return to the entrance.

Also, no time passes when this is used. If you were over encumbered and had 1 Feather Potion you could use it and fast travel. However time would still 'pass' so when you go to the gate of a city your feather effect would be gone and you couldn't move again.

Plus the final feature of M/R is that you have to remember to set the Mark. If you didn't set it to where you wanted to get back to you could end up having to walk back, or if it was marked somewhere else you could wind up way on the other side of the map by accident.
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Chris Johnston
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 4:25 pm

I hope you are being sarcastic.

You have trouble empathising with people who don't agree with you I see. Well, good luck in life.

The spell operates within the confines of the world and requires the thought of where to place your teleport marker, and has the restriction of only being able to teleport to where you've set your marker. If you can't see why people might find that more immersive then really we aren't going to get very far at all in this thread...
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Sabrina garzotto
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:56 pm

Toggle would only be a worst-case scenario, if nothing better was set up.

Am I the only one to think that maybe, fast-travel will gain an in-game explanation by this "teleportation" dragonshout ? Provided it does have some form of limit and/or cost (no "hey, that's the first shout you get and contrary to all other, you can use it as much as you want"), I could live with that.

What I wish for is other means - a full network. There's bound to be mages guilds, for one thing ; boats alongside the coast could be another thing. I like caravans : I'd love to have some form of mini-quest where you can travel for free provided you act as a guard for the travellers.
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Melanie Steinberg
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 11:36 am

I'd love to see an alternative and a toggle for fast travel.
Fast travel would still be there and we would have our travel services. Seriously how hard can it be to implement in the game?
I really don't see why fast travel fans make such an big issue of this. Fast travel won't be removed, you would still be able to use it and Bethesda would merely please the rest of their fans.
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Spencey!
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:10 pm


As for Mark and Recall I am not so decided. It seems like a waste of a spell and for those who want it I am not sure why you are so opposed to fast travel? I didn't use it much in MW and it seems just as 'cheap' imho.



For one thing, mark/recall and intervention can get you out of a dungeon quickly instead of having to backtrack all the time (especially handy for when you are at full inventory). That's a plus for those that want to save time with fast travel, an aspect that is always overlooked for some reason. Secondly they take you to specific places...so if you want to set your mark next to a specific NPC in a large city (or an annoyingly out of the way one, like Aryn in the Telvanni quest line), doesn't that save time? Again, an argument of the fast travel proponents.

More importantly, if mark/recall and intervention are high level spells that means you otherwise have to use them as scrolls which are 1) finite, and 2) have a cost associated with using them, as opposed to the fast travel in Oblivion which is completely free of consequence for use.

Oh and mark/recall are useable in combat which adds a tactical choice. You could have more challenging fights. Fast travel requires you be out of combat.
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rae.x
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:56 am

I would like to see Morrowind-style fast travel. That said, it would not bother me if they used Oblivion's again. If I feel like roleplaying, I don't use it. Very simple and painless to me.
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Tiff Clark
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 9:27 am

Voicing my support :thumbsup:

Travel services add realism to the game world - even if you don't intend to use them because you prefer fast travel for whatever reason, isn't it nice to see how the other NPCs get from city to city?

I don't know enough about Skyrim to know what's appropriate yet. Is the terrain horse-carriage friendly?

Also, maybe because of the civil war it is impossible to get between certain cities with the 'ordinary' travel services options because of the frontlines. Trader NPCs in both cities complain about this. You end up having to bribe (expensive) / persuade some wagon driver to run this dangerous route.

Maybe you can hitch a ride on trade caravans headed for more isolated cities?

Something really unique to the setting would be cool, the silt striders really added to the atmosphere of Morrowind.

I don't really care about a toggle one way or the other - if travel services are in then I would have no problem avoiding using it. But it's easily made, so why not?

(edited for clarity... I hope)
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jodie
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:33 pm

I want boats and other transportation networks one would expect to see in the game world. I can feel their absence strongly in Oblivion. They can be done in GTA4/RDR style. And for possible tediousness, there is Daggerfall style fast travel.

The existence of Oblivion Fast Travel is not something I care a bit. It can be optional or not. I don't care. Asking about it to become optional warrants responses like Pete Hines's.
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Prohibited
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:45 pm

Secondly they take you to specific places...

:lmao: Near my tent on the grazelands. Where half of the time, I get jumped on by passing daedra.

That's another thing I like with those spells. :P There's a cost... And a risk.
Something really unique to the setting would be cool, the silt striders really added to the atmosphere of Morrowind.

Gods, yes ! Something really otherworldly. Giant tame Horker, who's with me. :P
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Jeffrey Lawson
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 4:49 pm

You have trouble empathising with people who don't agree with you I see. Well, good luck in life.


Seems to be a common problem in these parts.

I seriously can't see the difference between clicking one button or another.
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An Lor
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:33 pm

Seems to be a common problem in these parts.

I seriously can't see the difference between clicking one button or another.

Well if you're going to strip it down that much why are you playing videogames? All it is at its core is pressing a series of buttons. If you can't see the difference between the buttons then why press them in the first place?
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Matthew Barrows
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 5:10 pm

Wow, why does everyone always have the same stupid answer. "If you don't want to use it than don't, der her herrr." Look here is why, we want to travel fast, but we don't want to ruin our immersion. Fast travel ruins immersion because it feels like cheating your way to another area. Travel services don't ruin immersion because it's an in-game presence that you need to pay for. Remember in morrowind when you had no money and had to sell stuff just to get 30 some gp to travel to your destination. That feels real and has limitations that make the game feel more natural. But why would I spend money to go to a limited area and then embark onto another area when i can poof right there. Here is the point, fast travel is too tempting to resist, and once we give in we start to ruin our immersion and have to fight to get it back. Traveling in morrowind could be a chore but over the period of time it took to get to different places you grew to appreciate it.

So instead of saying "if you don't want it, don't use it" why not say "If you don't want it, than turn it off!" this is all we want, a substitution for those who like to explore and to not be tempted to ruin our game.
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