I think Oblivion is very close to Morrowind, albeit contrary, except game mechanics.

Well I dont sit there and try to convince my self that I am not playing a game and that my life is a game and Oblivion is the real world. Or whatever you are trying to say by that phrase...
And.... In life, people dont stand for hours on end in the same place barely walking around, or in some cases not even moving...
And neither do the people in Oblivion

That's why I'm a fan of both.

People would have hated that more than they hate the invisible walls, honestly. Because with endless land, people expect endless dungeons and other locations, and that's not what they'd get. At least with endless water you can't expect much except more water.

Random dungeon generator(Arena/Daggerfall style)? Is that possible with Oblivion's engine?

Nevermind me. You seem to want to convince yourself that you are playing a game and for that you demand extra barriers from the game. That's what bothered me.


That's what I'M talking about. :mohawk: Why do they stay at the same place? They should die in a week. Or maybe they can see the future and do their stuff when I am not around? And in Oblivion they just go to work and back home. No holidays, no trips, nothing. Equally boring. I saw some idiots training around Arena every day, all day long, without leaving the place, FOREVER. (Sent a shiver down my spine)


I think I'm a fan of Morrowind and Bethesda for making that game. You, on the other hand by accepting the major flaws of Oblivion and embrace it, are the true Elder Scrolls fan. I respect that.


Now, I don't think it would be too hard to put some auto generated dungeons to that space. But if they were gonna introduce that and then they can just up the scale of Cyrodiil and make it Daggerfall style. Still I would be interested in a mod like that for Oblivion.

I think that might be nice(random dungeon/land generation) on top of the original game, as well. I'd still like the main game area to have hand-crafted locations, but a never-ending landmass with dungeons(and perhaps maybe a few small towns?) surrounding the main game instead of just "you can't go further in this direction" would be nice, in my opinion.

Well, first off. Some NPCs do go on trips, such as a certain countess and one of the dark brotherhood members. 2 of them actually.
Secondly, think of this as medieval times, back them. Men had to work day in day out just to make a living, they had NO time to go on vacation, let alone the cash.

Third, they trained all day long so they could survive. They are arena combatants, they train for their lives sake. And to get money.

I dont play games so I can try to get away from my life and try to convince my self that i am living an actual life inside a simple video game. I have a live and I live it in the real world, not in some fantasy world.

[quote name='Deagonx' date='05 August 2010 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1281069758' post='16244221']
[quote name='vtastek' date='06 August 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1281069169' post='16244199']
Nevermind me. You seem to want to convince yourself that you are playing a game and for that you demand extra barriers from the game. That's what bothered me.


That's what I'M talking about. :mohawk: Why do they stay at the same place? They should die in a week. Or maybe they can see the future and do their stuff when I am not around? And in Oblivion they just go to work and back home. No holidays, no trips, nothing. Equally boring. I saw some idiots training around Arena every day, all day long, without leaving the place, FOREVER. (Sent a shiver down my spine)

Well, first off. Some NPCs do go on trips, such as a certain countess and one of the dark brotherhood members. 2 of them actually.
Secondly, think of this as medieval times, back them. Men had to work day in day out just to make a living, they had NO time to go on vacation, let alone the cash.

Third, they trained all day long so they could survive. They are arena combatants, they train for their lives sake. And to get money.

I dont play games so I can try to get away from my life and try to convince my self that i am living an actual life inside a simple video game. I have a live and I live it in the real world, not in some fantasy world.
[/quote]
The real world? What is that?

lol..?
(short)

^ That's right, but with new technology this can be reduced in each game generation, so I hope to see fewer limits each generation.

Do those feel like a real world... Sorry, you don't want the game to resemble real world. Then I can't point Oblivion feeling like a giant scripted world rather than a real living world.

I think even poor can travel but let's say rich people would do it. Those two are traveling by some scripts of some quest rather than some part of Radiant AI, I assume. One can have an apprentice and leave the shop to that person or they can send that person for buying new stocks and such. Caravans, pilgrims that are not scripted but part of the simulated AI. It would be nice, there was potential.

If we add roleplaying to the equations, I'm sure we can justify everything in Morrowind too. The limited schedules for them is actually as limited as that for everyone else in Oblivion, it is just that others' beds are farther.

PS. For your last point, I get that. You want a game. You don't have to convince yourself it is a real world. That's not the point. You just don't want the game to be like a real world.

"This game is too real. There must be boundaries for me to hit. So I can tell it is a game."
:huh:

I mean it is OK to not believe a game can/should have a real world but why are you trying to get that aspect away from us, who has no lives? It would be a major turn off for me. Is it really bothering you?

I'd have to say that the perpetual trainers in the Arena were a small exception to an otherwise decent AI.

In general, it was an improvement over Morrowind's NPC activities. Wasn't really anything special, but it was something that should have been done from the start.

I think that since Bethesda went ahead and did a hand wave to the whole 'Cyrodiil-as-a-jungle' thing, they could have done something more creative with the borders, regardless of what the lore maps depicted. They could have created canyons, ridges, impassable mountain ranges, or even wooded areas that are too dense to navigate. The invisible barriers felt too much like my PC was a dog whose leash was tethered to the IC. Though the Sea of Ghosts and Inner Sea that seperated Vvardenfell from mainland Morrowind were probably no more than the width of the Amazon, at least it acted as a natural barrier, and thus was easier to justify than the 'Truman Show' approach that Oblivion adopted. Just my 2 septims. :shrug:

Just wait for Tamriel Rebuilt to finish, should soothe your needs to leave the island.

Well, then again, this many years into the project and they haven't finished Map 3... I guess I wouldn't hold your breath. The little bit they do have is nice, though.

Anyhoo, modding aside, I don't mind the endless sea. Frankly, expecting to see something out there with the limited land to work with seems a little silly to me. If it crushes you to have an endless sea, stay on the land.

Not totally bothered about the endless sea. I didn't spend much time swimming aimlessly out into infinity anyway.

Well, in OB you can reach the end of the world if you exit a town by its walls, i love to do it and see some of the most bizarre graphic errors on the seas outside the Topal Bay, there are literally, KMs of polygon glitches there and there :hubbahubba:

I know why I stopped coming to this forum. :shakehead:

If you reach the rift, you've gone too far.

I personally never tried too hard to explore the sea in Morrowind - you only get a guaranteed 10-20 seconds of swimming before there's a school of Slaughterfish gnawing away at you from behind.


I think the biggest fault with Oblivion's barriers was the fact there was no clear territorial distinction. Literally, the grass over here in Cyrodiil looks just like the grass over there in Hammerfell. You would have no reason to believe that it's distant land trickery until you smack your face against the invisible wall. There was absolutely nothing over there. Perhaps some distant silhouettes of other cities would have been nice - they could've added to the sense of geographical unity in Tamriel and served as inspiration for players seeking to mod the outlying provinces.

At the very least, I feel that Bethesda should have had visible reaches of desert or swamps/forests/canyons like you and the others said. Of course, all of those things would be far more interesting than what ultimately got put into the playable game world, so...

Are..you serious? Like, is this a serious thread? Really? What the else, exactly, were they supposed to do? Spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in payroll for their employees and designers to design things you couldn't get to in the background and put an invisible wall up? :rolleyes:
Of all the things to complain about lmao..

I think you need to lay off him a bit. Sorry for singling you out, you're not the only one, it's just you're the last one to post I can see why people are slightly annoyed at such a small complaint but I think we can all also agree it's not a perfect system, and neither is Oblivions. So instead of just complaining, let's get some discussion going about ways we'd like to see of preventing the player leaving the game world.

I think the Morrowind system was preferable to Oblivions, and the fog effect meant you could believe there was land out there somewhere. I think all it was missing would be visible land in the distance, but which is unreachable, as the PC should drown after swimming for a certain ammount of time. The distant shore doesn't need to actually be there, just look like it is.

Even without these additions Morrowind's barriers were preferable to OB's glass walls, but as the OP mentioned Cyrodiil lacks the natural borders of Vvardenfell. However it would have been nice to see some imagination, with (as another poster already suggested) canyons, impassable woodland, cliff faces, fast flowing rivers... maybe even a few roads out of the province, but with locked gates or guards who refuse to allow the player to pass. There are ways of keeping the world enclosed and preserving immersion, and, although I can't speak for the OP, I think that is the sort of thing he wanted to hear rather than complaints about his complaint and die-hard Morrowinders defending their infinite oceans.

Well they did it in Fallout 3 with all these destroyed buildings around Washington DC area, in TESV its probably that we dont see any more invisible walls and add more distinction of the worldmap limits.

What you have to realize though is that the view distance probably wouldn't have been far enough for you to see across to the mainland, and would keep it very believable unless you were to go swimming.

Anyways, I much prefer endless water. Much more believable than in Oblivion.

I think Bethesda should create barriers in TES V similar to the way Valve did for Half Life 2 when there was a seemingly open ocean; there were swarms of leeches that would kill you in seconds if you went out too far. I also recall a jetski racing game where if you went too far out of the map, a giant sea monster would literally toss the player character hundreds of feet back where he belonged; that one was beyond hilarious.

What I'm saying is that Bethesda could easily think of more creative ways to keep people from going outside the map, rather than an annoying invisible glass barrier and a voice in your head.