- Taken from a random forum.


Such truth. I had totally of 7 playthroughs in oblivion with different characters. After all the playthroughs I felt I'm rolling the same character with different race.



Your thoughts? Would you like Skyrim to have restrictions? Unique, specific skill based positives and negatives?

I play different games for different things. When I want to play a class-based game with rigid boundaries between who can use what skills, there's plenty of other choices out there. TES games (to me, having only started with Morrowind) are about freedom to explore, and character growth via "which skills do you use". :shrug:



(...also, just because some people are unable to keep from using a certain collection of skills on every character, doesn't mean the system itself is flawed. If you really don't want to use Sneak, to keep from feeling like a thief, don't use it.)

thats your fault for using the other options. I would love to see rewards for specializign but act like you are being forced to use other skills. I usually played as a paladin being a mix of melee/restoration, and some destruction and I thought it was fun as hell.

Maybe you just ended up playing each play-through the same after a while, because after all, it's your own play-style and you probably ended up blending your typical play-style into each character. I've noticed that sometimes when I try playing different arch-types but I do alright keeping them somewhat unique.

I think it's pretty sad that you are limited to skill-/attribute caps (only up to 100). If you play extensively your characters look the same statwise at the end of the game.
What would be interesting are Traits with +/--effects you choose at the beginning of the game (like Fallout 1/2),which restrict you for a pretty long time so you need to specialize (though it might be unfamiliar for an ES-game).

Sure it's not something they've had in a TES game before, but Traits would work great I suppose. Also, they've been in the newer Fallout games as well, Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas... wait, actually I don't think they were in Fallout 3, why not? I don't know.

Almost created a topic like this myself, and I agree wholeheartedly. I think that Perks are a step in the right direction, and I can see that the "stones" are another attempt to get some kind of uniqueness going. I'd like to see more of this.

You don't need bonuses and restrictions to tell you that your character is unique. You should play a certain way because you LIKE playing that way, not because it gives bonuses or restrictions. Hell, I almost ALWAYS play a warrior-type character because that's just my style, but I expect to be able to still use magic (why shouldn't I?) and pick locks (even if I'm bad at it). If I made a mage, should I not be able to wear heavy armor? No, that's just unrealistic. It only made sense in Daggerfall because it used a completely different system, where your armor gave a certain score regardless of how well-trained you are to wear it.

Long story short, no, I would not like to see any restrictions, nor bonuses for playing only a certain way (besides perks). Restrictions ruin free-roaming single player games like TES in my opinion. Freedom of choice beats that mmo-style stuff any day.

Perks will create the specialization, possibly on a level that surpasses Daggerfall, though that may not be a good thing, if it becomes particularly constraining.

Class restriction of equipment is stupid. There's no magic curse on items that says someone can only use something. Instead, give certain "Classes"/builds incentive to use items. A wizard has no reason to equip a Helmet that grantz +10 Physical damage, over a hood that grantz +2Magicka Regened per second.

I disagree. I think that often restrictions can really enhance gameplay. For example guards and prison attempt to limit your behaviour. Would the game be better without them?
Would the game be better if you could automatically play any mission from a drop down menu? Start with the best gear?

The best gear is tough to get, and when you do finally get it, the buzz of satisfaction you get is both because it improves your Character and because you may have got something that few others have been able to.

Without challenges and restrictions Character building becomes a near pointless exercise. Sure you can deliberately avoid certain skills, but why would your Character do this? Its like your Character starting with 10,000gp, and not spending any of it, pretending to be poor.

i like the fact that you can do a bit of every thing, it helps with the role play factor, but from what your saying if you dont want to play a certain way then dont

Rp Its all in the mind a thief may sneak but so may an assassin and a warrior who feels a lil tact is in order... It's not about skills but mentality personly I assays felt the skills just represent what's worldly able. also restricting anything may seem like a good idea to you but really that is just a punishment for specialising, why can't I be a thief that likes to use their wood cutters axe to remain inconspicuous and summon creatures as destraction to make my getaway, they may not be average thief skills by I'm not looking for average characters. Each to there own and I say have some self restraint I don't get alot of the complaint on the boards, if you want the game to play a certain way play it that way but don't come crying on the forums when you break your own game by enchanting the crap of of everything or making uber stupid exploitative spells, you've just cheated your self...

In Oblivion, besides your choice of gender and race, you also got to select your own Birth-sign (from 13 different ones), which gives you constant effect Attribute bonuses, or constant effect Magicka bonuses (and some Birth-signs come with inherent weaknesses).
In Skyrim these are all determined for you (more hand-holding, so that the player won't be able to make a "bad" choice, and "ruin" his character build).

In Oblivion you also got pick your Class (from 21 Standard Classes, or you could create your own Custom Class).
In Oblivion, classes further define your character by allowing the player to distribute 7 skill points and 2 attribute points . . . any way you want.
In Skyrim you are stuck with what the game determines is best for you. How many players here, who played Oblivion, were happy with the Class that the game picked for them? How many players decided to select their own Class?

TES games have always allowed the player to create their own unique initial character build . . . based on how we want to play the game. In Skyrim we will be MUCH more limited . . . other than Race, which will have some minor difference, every starting player character will be EXACTLY the same (stat-wise) . . . the only real differences will be in their appearance.

And that is an issue for me.

I did end up using the same skills on every character, despite trying not to -- mage/thief hybrid -- but I find my ranged style of play to be fun. :foodndrink:

In Daggerfall you could make a custom class with whatever traits, disadvantages and equipment restrictions you wanted, so not really restricted anyway.
There are a lot of things players do, that isn't really the game's job to sort out. We now have a carriage system. I'm assuming you can fast travel town to town, then walk or ride to the dungeons. If you still use map based fast travel, that's your fault, not the game's. Saying I don't want to use it, but can't resist, should not be a criticism of the game.
Same with classes. If you set out to role play some character, but end up meta gaming, that is your choice, not the game's. The entire design ethos of TES is a warrior can use spells, a mage can wear armour, a thief can sneak in heavy armour if he is skilled enough. If you need restrictions to play a certain class, and are desperate to play that class, you can't blame TES when you don't.

What the perk system gives us, though, is the chance to make a build for any class or combination. Wanna do a bit of everything, fine, wanna be a mage fine, wanna concentrate on one aspect of magic, work away.

I have to agree. I kinda hope perks help you create a more specialized character.

There need to be more options open to class specific characters too. Maybe put more restrictions on things like specialized skills, like magic for instance. Like if you want to get the good magic you have to devote yourself to it.

Except that appearance AND enchantment options are now limited by all armor being a single piece. TES is becoming less an RPG and more an action game with each installment.

You misunderstood my post. Roleplaying has nothing to do with it. I dislike roleplaying, I do not want to sit in my room and act like a virtual character I'll never be, I find it stupid.

That said, I meant it in combat. I want to roll different characters so I can try out different combinations, but the problem is that the game does not reward you or punish you because you are being special at something.

:goodjob:

The problem with the "feeling unique" thing is that, although Oblivion seems to give you infinite options, it's only giving you three:

-Hit It (hey, lot's of weapons)
-Use a Spell on it (hey, lot's of spells)
-Sneak through it

If you take a look at the skills, they all belong to either http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Skills

Oh, yeah! Guilds! There are three MAIN guilds... one for warriors, one for mages and one for thiefs!

...

Since I like to out-smart NPCs and try to find a non-agresive way of solving problems, by persuading them, flirting or what ever, I find this horrible.

Which I WILL be able to join all of them, finish them in 3-4 hours. And the best thing is I wont even need to be the certain archetype to join. Horrible.

The ability to use any weapon and any spell freely along with INCENTIVES to improve all your minor skills because it made you powerful whereas improving your major skills made you weaker tended to push everyone around into a master of all trades build.

You are playing a blade master? Fine but I can bet all you want you got a rather high score in H2H or Blunt just cause it's needed to improve your Str. You play a Destruction mage? You got a high alchemy level cause that's how you get more Int which means more Magicka.

The game systems in the past two games pushed you to train a lot of different skills outside of your majors which caused the problem your seeing. Skyrim looks like it'll break that problem by removing major/minor skill distinction and removing the need to train unwanted skills to improve your core attributes for your play style.

The best limitation is to make it difficult to become good at everything rather than have arbitrary limitations like warriors can't sneak. Perks will hopefully achieve this. Someone with 100 sneak but no sneak perks will be more limited in how they can use it than someone with 100 sneak and all the perks.

Freeform classes is what attracted me to TES in the first place. Way back in 2002 (I believe?) I was reading an article about Morrowind in a mag. The article did not do it justice - so you're dropped on a gloomy island? Yeah, THAT's something to enjoy. Screenshots were unimpressive either. But then one line caught my attention. It went something like this: "In Morrowind, you aren't restricted to a set of skills fixed to a certain class - you choose which skills you want to use. Your character need not necessarily be a dumb barbarian unable to read, or a feeble old wizard geezer barely carrying the weight of his staff." Now that was truly appealing. I had wanted to play an RPG where I could create my own favourite mix of skills for a long time before then. The rest is history, and that element is most important to me to this day.
So what if I end up being a god-like character just like any other? I got to get to that point in the way I wanted, and that's good enough for me.

Well, persuading enemies would only be able to be work on a very select number of NPCs.
What I mean by that is, you can't go into a bandit lair and just say, "Hey, guys. Why don't you let the poor woman go, her husband misses her."
That won't work cause the bandits will try to kick your ass and exhange you for ransom aswell.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant tough.

This is so far from the truth that I can hardly believe it. You are not "stuck with what the game determines is best for you". You're free to use whatever you want. Instead of being stuck with whatever you chose in the beginning of the game, you are now free to make these choices whenever you want.