Only at least one is just with mr House. Which, I'm hesitant to say, is "Freeside well off". Since to get this you'd have to be anti-NCR. (which I'm okay with just it seems you add more conflict to make Mr House consolidate his rule.)

The rest can be obtained in NCR or Independent ending. Mostly Independent since NCR just goes 'NOM OM NOM' on the Mojave.

Though it is good that House does have a 'fairytale' ending, seeing he's just as harsh as the NCR or CL if he's betrayed.

These words essentially clarify the real question we should be asking ourselves. Hope for the present, and hope for the future, are not mutually exclusive. In order for any society to improve itself, it has to acknowledge the potential for error. From what I witnessed, to even question the Legion is punishable by a brutal and torturous death (as if it isn't enough to simply murder them, they do so in such a way as to invoke fear in the hearts of witnesses by making an example out of it). We can probably all agree that none of the factions in New Vegas are without flaws, but which are the most likely to acknowledge those flaws and make an effort to rectify them? Growth of a society is the ultimate objective here, but growth always begins with the individual. While it is true that the individuals in power are the most influential, for good or bad, the founding principles on which every member of a society has sacrificed and experienced personal anguish are the most inspiring of all. So then perhaps the question becomes, which faction's founding principles are most appropriate in an ideal future for mankind? The amount of change required weighs heavily as an obstacle toward growth.

One might argue that once a necessity ceases to exist, behaviors, attitudes, and general outlooks will change naturally to match. However, this is likely an over simplification, and not the most efficient method for change. Consider the average American, paying taxes, likely having some family connection to a government service, working in his or her society performing a job which in some way enhances the lives of others--they, to some extent, have invested themselves. These are some of the key causes for the loyalty and love of one's homeland or way of life [however flawed] which invoke such passion. To make a drastic change to something you've invested so much in is extremely difficult. Thus, the likelihood and efficiency of change depends on how significantly it contrasts.

With all of these things carefully considered, I find myself leaning toward the NCR as the best option for the highest potential. They make mistakes and are obviously flawed, but they don't seem unwilling to acknowledge it. They also [though, not always] consider the welfare of people not even part of the NCR. Their initiative to send emissaries to The Kings to negotiate a peaceful and facilitating human aid center is evidence. The only reason they didn't make their food and aid available to all citizens of Freeside is because they thought The Kings (the unofficial authority in Freeside) attacked their people sent to open a dialogue for diplomacy. Also note the woman in the building giving you extra food specifically for the purpose of feeding your imaginary non-NCR citizen friend, who wasn't allowed to enter.

Yes I agree.
I really was shocked that after 3 other runs I got this result on a more neutral build.
In fact the build was entirely neutral for every time I hurt one faction, I helped another and made up to those I hurt.
My other playthroughs the bad one was seemingly grey, the two good ones again grey, the latest neutral independent one screwed everyone somehow despite complete balance in choices.
The House one just fell into place.

Anyway my original point was just to say I felt that the Dev's really favoured House not in quantity of material but quality of it.

Let's just hope a DLC will expand on one of the endings, since then we can expand on discussion how that ending has both damned yet done good the Mojave.

Espically with House or independent, since the possibilites are endless. For better or worse.

You mean Vulpes Inculta...one of Caesar's most senior lieutenants. The man who basically runs Caesar's version of the KGB and is at Caesar's right hand whenever you report to him. You make it sound like Caesar doesn't know what he is doing outside the Fort....which is not at all the truth, atrocities like Nipton are how he rose to become one of Caesar's lieutenants in the first place. The fact that Caesar raised him up from a mere Decanus...after preventing his Centurion for executing him for insubordination...to one of his closest Lieutenants says almost as much about him as his suggestion for recruiting the White Gloves to his cause by advising them they had his blessing to revert to thier pre-House cannibal ways. This wasn't a pantload like the Khans were given....they were who Caesar had chosen to Administer the Strip in his name after he conquered the Mojave. His commander at Cottonwood Cove....a vital front-line post....was a cannibal too. I'm sure there were more. Lanuis was sacrificing people to Caesar, whom he worshipped as a God.

Stuff Caesar, and shove him up one of his poles.
Perspective has f-all to do with right and wrong, legion ideals are pure underworld ninth gate idiocy.
Fiends and Kahns, gtfo of the Mojave!
Powder-gangsters, ha ha comic relief, plain and simple.
Collaborative co-existence between NCR, BoS, and House.

I feel inclined to agree. The ideal ending to this game would be a peaceful co-existence of the NCR, BoS, and House. House should share his knowledge and technology and enforce a fair and democratic law collaboratively with the other aforementioned factions. Perhaps in a DLC we can open a diplomatic solution where these three factions form their own allied regions in the Mojave.

With regard to Caeser's Legion: I would personally rather die than live in the a world of such suffering as would be inevitable under their undisputed and unchallenged reign. The only hope worth clinging to to give me motivation for living in such a world would be that I might find a means to end everyone's suffering by extinguishing the flame that is human existence. In other words, if no better way of life is ever going to be possible, it should be ended altogether. To live merely for the sake of living is not enough. It is the human capacity to experience joy, friendship, love, compassion, generosity, integrity, and a sense of ideals with morality which make the suffering which all of us experience [some more than others] worth tolerating.

[quote name='SirDeity' timestamp='1294690112' post='16956306']
I feel inclined to agree. The ideal ending to this game would be a peaceful co-existence of the NCR, BoS, and House. House should share his knowledge and technology and enforce a fair and democratic law collaboratively with the other aforementioned factions. Perhaps in a DLC we can open a diplomatic solution where these three factions form their own allied regions in the Mojave.

I would like that. Unfortunatly house is set on a autocracy. Basically dictator, but made to sound better. Shows how much house cares about mankind, wouldnt even give the followers information on medicine and such. The followers could have used that information. Unfortunatly a man like house, even if he is good, is the sort of person who HAS to rule alone, and wouldnt stand for any other opinion.

After playing the whole game, that's what the Legion still represents to me. Caeser may be much more philosophical and complex, but the rest, the faction as a whole just looks straightforward black evil to me. :shrug:

Having extensively talked to pretty much anyone who has dialogue of any significance, as well as having run all four faction options, I would say the NCR is probably the best choice.

It's true that they are constantly portrayed as a bunch of bungling bureaucrats and inept soldiers, however from what I have seen both are overdone to an almost comical level to make the NCR appear lost without the Courier's help. If you talk (and listen) to the various military personalities, you quickly discover that there are a number of officers and soldiers who would love nothing more than to cross the river and kick the crap out of the Legion; however, they are being held back by General Oliver, who is paralyzed by fear and should have been relieved of command long before things reached the current crisis state.

I do think they have over-reached themselves somewhat, although they are starting to get things under control to an extent. I suspect that once the threat of the Legion is removed (albeit possibly temporarily) their rate of assimilating the area would speed up significantly since they would be able to concentrate on pacifying the region and starting serious infrastructure work. The beginnings of the latter are already in place, between the restoration work on the dam, the work at HELIOS-1 (needs a new project head, badly), and the work on the water supply.

Well, I finally finished the game and I'm pleased with the outcome. I ultimately decided to kill Mr. House because the cost of his vision was too steep. It required the slaughter of countless innocent people, which meant the end of my loyalty toward him. I proceeded to send Yes Man to the Lucky 38 with tentative plans to sieze control of the tower, Mr. House's robot army, and his technology to use for good deeds but mostly to ensure it didn't fall into the hands of anyone who would abuse such power. The next thing I did was report back to the NCR to let them know that Mr. House was no longer a threat. The NCR requested my assistance against an attack on the dam from the Legion, so of course I volunteered. I had already won the support of the Brotherhood of Steal and the Boomers, thus essentially creating an alliance of sorts between BoS, NCR, and Boomers.

After killing [completely vaporizing with 12 units of C4] the Legate (Lanius), the game abruptly came to an end. My only regret is that I let Rex die. My entire game was played in hardcoe mode, so my companions were mortal. I used Veronica and Rex during the overwhelming majority of my gameplay. Rex was a particularly frustrating companion to keep alive as he would constantly rush forward into battle and get himself killed, even after being told to stay put. The poor dog had already gone through enough misery in his life (as evident by his physical condition). Rest in peace, Rex.

In my mind, what comes next is a continued diplomacy for peace and human development between the NCR, BoS, and Boomers. I would like to think the Mutants might also join the alliance, but they strike me as being more comfortable in seclusion. Besides, who knows if mutants can even reproduce? At any rate, I would keep the robot army locked away, only using them in the most dire of situations to ensure peace and prevent wars. I would outlaw any weapons more dangerous than, say, a mini-nuke. Technologies which serve a good purpose but are capable of causing a lot of devastation (such as Helios One) would be guarded and securely controlled by me using my automated security forces. (I might secretly embed a hidden string of code which causes the solar plant to self-destruct in the event that its weaponized capabilities were ever activated).

I still believe in democracy. The mistakes made which resulted in the last armageddon are not bound to be repeated. Mr. House's insinuation that history is bound to repeat itself if democracy is allowed to flourish is extremely shortsighted. What you see when looking out the window is the result of several problems, none of which is democracy [though, perhaps one of the problems was corruption in a democratic government - but corruption is equally possible in virtually any type of government]. People can learn from history and the mistakes of the past and adapt accordingly, without entirely abandoning their beliefs. The founding principle of democracy; that all people have an equal vote on matters of importance, is still good. Mankind's lack of self-discipline, compassion, integrity, and wisdom are probably the true causes of its greatest folly. More education, for example, would be a great start toward ensuring history never repeats itself.

The only mention of House and Medical technology is when you plant the bug for the FoA. He shuts it down, but Emily says in the short time it was running they received a bunch of data that showed his technology was too complex to be used. If House wants to colonize other worlds, he will make such technology available. Can't have your colonists getting sick and dying.

However, I agree that a peaceful co-existence of the FoA, House, NCR, and BoS would be great. Unfortunately that won't happen. NCR wants everything, the BoS will kill anyone with high tech or even suspected of having it (I Could Make You Care), and House will not give up his vision. I can see House allying with the FoA. If the NCR could check its greed, House would ally with them.

Anybody else notice how there are only white legionares? Maybe there are hispanic, but I don't remember seeing any. So the CL is racist and sixist.

I barely find any black or hispanic NCR people either so I guess they're racist too. :rolleys:
Seriously though, I asked a while back why there were so few black people in Vegas and the reason is that IRL this area is mostly populated by white people.
So I don't know what the black/asian/middleastern/indian/white ratio is in Arizona but maybe white people are in the top percentage and that's the reason for Legion being mostly white.

But you still find them? can the same be said for the legion? As far as I know 80% of Arizona is white, and maybe 5% is black, so the legion being primarily a white organization would make sense. In any event nothing in the material we have about the legion says there racist based on color.

The legion is racist though end of story, they discriminate against ghouls and super mutants but don't go out of there way to attack them unprovoked. And of course any culture that isn't there own is to be exterminated and its people converted, enslaved or killed. The NCR does allow ghouls and Super Mutants to join there ranks. There are numerous ghoul rangers and Fallout 2 featured a Super Mutant Ranger named Gond.

When are they racist against super mutants and ghouls?
Wasn't that from the Van Buren design docs? Which are non-canon?

Or is there an ending of Black Mountain or Jacobstown I've missed? :drool:

Actually I wise some of the reports Hanlon made turns out to be ture :sadvaultboy:

Have you gone to the Fort with Lilly or Raul? Haven't gone with the nightkin yet but the legion troops speak of Raul like he's an animal. And Arizona and the other territories conquered by the legion would have ghouls yet none serve in the legion.


I notice you like to make mention of Flaggstaff and other Van Buren design document material in YOUR arguments so I figured it was fair game. Most of the documents were used for new vegas anyway so its probably the best source of material on legion society outside the Mojave. At the very least its stated the legion doesn't have super mutants by ranger Patson. No ghouls, no mutants, no women. The legion discriminates.


Marcus is fairly stubborn about not starting trouble, and the information on had says the Legion won't start anything either.
It makes sense they'd ignore Jacobstown.

The Legion, even if they really are evil, we need a twisted ending, I dont expect a "the good guys wins" again, well, if you can call the NCR good guys, maybe the best option, but not the good guys (they are responsible for the raiders attack in Vault City, and ..... REMEMBER BITTERSPRING)


However, Yes Man also appeals to me , ANARCHISM FTW!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually I see many asian, black, and hispanic people in the NCR (less asian than any other, but it fits with modern population percentages); in positions of authority too (I consider Ranger a position of authority). The only names I can remember are Colonel Hsu and Major Dhatri. SInce the Legion came out of Arizona, there should be a high percentage of hispanics in the legion. I've found none. In the hundreds of legionares my character has killed, they are all white. The legion are racist, sixist scum. Death to the legion! :flamethrower: :biggrin:

Come on Devs! Tell us the truth.

:foodndrink:

Haven't noticed.


Sorry, the wikia entry about Legion is very messy IMO, it has Van Buren and New Vegas material in there, thought Flagstaff had been confirmed in New Vegas.
It should be cleaned up and only have New Vegas material there with "every" single Van Buren bit marked as either semi or non canon.


I really dislike that part, Jacobstown feels too isolated from the rest of the world in the ending sliders.
Thought that their fate would end up differently depending on the main quest route one choses.

And yet, where are all those ghouls stationed? At a single camp, segregated from the rest of the military forces, hidden off in a corner of the frontier border. Seems kind of like the old WWII and earlier regiments/battalions of non-white members of the US military. They may well be just as dedicated and brave as any other part of the main NCR army, but nobody seems to want to keep them in the central command hubs. Have you seen a single ghoul anywhere close to Camp McCarran? Camp Forlorn Hope? Camp Golf? Even the ghoul you can help over at Searchlight ends up being shuffled off to the side at either Ranger Station Echo, or his own tiny little campsite with no company but giant radscorpions.

Not really much point in trying to bring up the single super mutant, as that is on par with the NCR saying "See! I'm not racist, I have a black/asian/hispanic/martian friend!" Even Marcus makes the point that most NCR attempt to kill super mutants on sight, and has you deal with the NCR paid mercenaries harassing Jacobstown trying to start a fight.

So, I am the only here who support the Legion (and Yes Man) endings?

NCR. even for being the best option doesnt mean that is the best solution, they can become a military state after the President dies (considering how messed up are their politics) becoming a full-pledged militaristic state who only wants to expand their territory by the only purpose, for not saying excuse, of the Republic

Dario Meza, I support Legion.

In my opinion, the short term future of the Mojave...indeed the entire Western USA, is in towns like Goodsprings. Small, self sufficient, family like atmosphere. All they need is a stout wall and a militia/snipers to keep them safe.

Added to this, a cohesive unit such as a reformed Texas Rangers that wander the land from a central hub would tend to cut down on the powder gangers and their ilk.

1. Legion. Good overall idea for an emerging country. Rome was an almost flawless society until the inevitable conflicts between emperor, senate, and military caused massive rifts which her enemies took merciless advantage of. Added to that, the rise of an all powerful religious entity (the Vatican and her warlord popes and his standing army) sealed Rome's fate. As the game tells you midway through, Caesar is ill and will probably not live much longer. Without Caesar, his empire will fall to pieces and be reduced to an army of bloodthirsty villains. The average member of the Legions is akin to the average member of the Imperial forces late in the Star Wars saga...nothing but scum and petty criminals given authority.

2. The three families. One emulates gangsters (the Omertas), one emulates the Rat Pack (Tops), one is a group of overly civilized cannibals. All of them are greedy bootlickers who, except for the unifying force that is Mr. House would still be living in mud daub huts. None of them are worthy of being more than business men and a minor nuisance.

3. The Khans. I fear for the Khans. Given the 'best' ending for them, they are, at best patterning themselves off of a bloodthirsty, murderous conqueror who unified most of Asia through conquest and [censored]. I wouldn't trust them farther than I could nuke them.

4. The BoS. They are far to insular and self righteous. Their inevitable treatment of the Van Graffs simply for dealing in energy weapons (no mention is made of them knowing what KIND of people the Van Graffs are) is harsh to the point of being unforgiveable...there were OTHER options, starting with absorbing them into the brotherhood, through stealing their tech, to simply going to limited war with their caravans until they leave the area...Extermination was utterly uncalled for given the brotherhoods lack of knowledge about what kind of people they are. That all being a given, having learned for himself what type of people they are, it would most likely have still been their eventual fate to be exterminated by the good-doing courier.

5. Mr. House. Ever read 1984? Flat out, Mr. House is the worst possible choice of leaders for mankind. The legion can only enslave the body and punish the mind, but Mr. House would enslave the mind and punish the body. In my mind he is on par with the legion in every aspect, even down to his army of Securitrons.

6. Yes Man. I fear sorely for the world with Yes Man at the helm. As an AI, all yes man understands is probabilities of outcome. Based on that, and having no conscience, Yes Man would likely reprogram himself (as he already mentions....) even further, eventually wiping out his directive to obey, then take over. Yes man would be the single most likely agent in the wasteland to find and USE nuclear armaments again if he felt threatened.

7. The Courier. The courier, as with all the Fallout heroes, is wiser than the rest of humanity, taking the long view, and wise enough to know that absolute power corrupts absolutely. He would be unsuited to long term rulership, but would, I think, make a good Overseer for short term (50 years) reconstruction efforts aided by a reorganized BoS (ala Fallout Tactics) and the Followers of the Apocalypse.

8. The NCR. Sorry, but the NCR is too voracious for it's own good. They can't hold what they already have, much less rebuild society as a whole. Add to that the corruption inherent in their government and you have one giant ghetto just waiting to be built.

All in all, there ARE NO good solutions except that the wanderer, using Yes Man, should mandate a diaspora across the west to build small fortified towns in the aspect of an armed/walled version of Goodsprings, foster trade between towns, and leave government, such as it is, to roving bands of lawmen (ala reformed Texas Rangers). A central government would be UNWISE at this point in societies regrowth.