What I so much like about Alduin is that he is kind of trapped in his role. He's not necessarily evil per se; his time has just come to eat the world once again. Would this universally change things for better or worse? Of course people having a good time in the current world don't like it, and thus consider it evil, but it's possibly not Alduin's choice at all. He might just have to do it. He could just follow pure instinct, like a simple animal when the species' mating season starts. Anyway, for me Alduin is more like a season than a clichéd plotting Lord of evil like Mehrunes, who (pretty much) has his own will. Yes, he's trapped by his role, too, but not to that extent Alduin is. That is, he can even reward people who make him favors, etc.

Those things aside, Ur always had a free will and he chose what became of him. And he became a some kind of classy disease-spreading God with dreams of new world order. His story is so well documented by so many sources that I just couldn't call him a clichéd evil boss. You should read all the accounts there are from Ur's past and then come back and tell if he's just a cliché evil arch nemesis or not.

I'm puzzled as to what you mean when you say "too". If anything, I feel that Kovacius reinforces some of my opinion. Ultimately, Dagoth Ur struggles to match the build up he and the Sixth House are given. All the lore, no matter how interesting, is devalued when it fails to shine through when he come face to face with the real thing. It's hard to reconcile the all the lore trying to make the Sixth House seem deep with the fact that in the present game they're bathing in all the trappings of generic evil; insane babbling, hideous monsters, evil lair, grostesque rituals, and more. Sure, Dagoth Ur might show a bit of honour, but what a shame hardly anything was done to build up from that. In context of the rest of the Sixth House in game however, the whole honour thing is only slightly better than when a villain foolishly tells his plan to the hero or gives him a "last request" when he thinks he's got the hero beat.


No, but what it does do is give Alduin more of a presence in the game, which is the main thing I take issue with between these two. Let me call upon three other examples from Morrowind. Venim, Dren, and Gothren, who could be considered the villains of the Hortator quests, in my opinion do a lot more to hinder the main character than Dagoth Ur. What's great about these three is that rather than resorting to sitting in some tower while sending lowly minions at you, they step out and do the job themselves (most noticable in the case of Venim). These three were a lot more proactive than Dagoth Ur in their efforts to stop you, and I wish they had gotten to play a bigger part in the story since I really liked them.

Similarly, Alduin is more proactive than Dagoth. He's a busy dragon in the story, and we even get to see it. Skyrim MQ spoilers ahead:


Of course, which is better is highly subjective. I'm just not too fond of the dark lord who sits in his tower all day, no matter how fasinating he might be.

Well, I guess that Lord Voryn Dagoth was too preoccupied with building his Akhulakan (sp?) and taking over the world to go wandering around Vvardenfell killing stray adventurers that might eventually become a threat. It may not have been perfect, but it at least made sense.

He could have at least started sending out Ash Ghouls when news reached him of you getting Wraithguard. Considering that Wraithguard was the last piece Dagoth needed for this plans, you'd think he would have done a bit more to try and get his hands on it. It was pretty obvious that he knew of your existence, enough to give you an indirect greeting. After Dagoth Gares, he seemed to fall off the radar as far as being a threat went right until near the end.

Plus, I never said Dagoth Ur didn't make sense.

From reading Kovacius' previous posts on these forums, and from my impression of his prior post, it seemed like me and him stood on the same ground. And if he didn't, then Archmagister Nelacayne did. You're kind of acting like my opinion is just alone and no one else really shares it, when in fact I feel that you're probably in the minority.


He did make some attempts. There are the Dreamers in town who try to kill you, but you're right it's not like House Dagoth kill-teams were dispatched to seek you out. Here's why I think he doesn't make larger efforts to kill you.

• Ghostgate, and the efforts of the Tribunal Temple. In large part it seemed that Dagoth Ur's power was sort of 'hemmed in' and even sending the more intelligent, powerful minions abroad seems to have been a dicey affair, what with Ordinators and Armigers trying to combat you at every turn.
  
• Arrogance. Dagoth Ur is a living God. It could be that he didn't know that Vivec had devised a plan to defeat him, but even if he did I'm sure Dagoth Ur was so high on life that he didn't fear anything or anyone.
  
• Closure. I think part of him always wanted Nerevar to come meet him in person at the place it all began. So they could have their talk, and maybe in some petty way he was hoping for an 'apology' or 'vindication' from the friend who he thinks betrayed him.
  
• Fate. I really get the impression that Dagoth Ur really felt that it was 'fated' that Nerevar would face him in Red Mountain. There had been previous Nerevarines, not one single Nerevarine. They all had obviously failed, and though he frequently tests your character through his minions and offers you a place at his side I think he was kind of 'waiting' or even 'hoping' for the Nerevarine to succeed up the point where they meet in person, so he could have the closure I talked about above, or put an end to the prophecy all together.

Wait even though he was in his tower wasnt he trying to convert or hindsr me thru ghe random dreams or messagers hes sent me? He seemed active,but not personnally active like alduin in the game.

Uhm,he did.
Or at least some sort of ash creature, its been a bit.
But I know that once you reach a certain stage in the main quest, every time you sleep in certain areas you will be attacked by an ash creature.
This will continue until you kill the unique dagoth creature in the sixth house base controlling that area, or until you finish the main quest.

^ Oh that's right, I forgot about how they used to attack me in your sleep.

Okay, in that case Shuuda's argument is invalid and Dagoth Ur is officially declared a greater villain than Alduin. Huzzah!

Morrowind is an excellent RPG.

Yes, it is.

But answer the post of the Op, no we wont. Granted skyrim at least made an effort to move in the right direction..its just I really see the future games being beautiful land areas in an acyion game whereas they rush their writers or just the writers just try to throw soemthing out re. If writersput anywhere near the effort the artists did, I dareay skyrim woulda be close to a masterpiece, but sadly to me its the writers fault for mydisappointment in the game.

I agree, sometimes i'm convinced i could do a better job at writing the dialogue lines in Skyrim. Most of the time the conversation choices all lead to the same line from the NPC, so it's just an illusion of choice really.

Alot of Skyrims problems are cosmetic in my opinion. If the DLC adds say, spears, morning stars and crossbows with a dynamic questline where you have a MEANINGFUL choice in the quest, then maybe that would please people.

I think you'll find that I was well aware of that and even made reference to the ash creatures that he sends after you. Read here, though I did put it in spoilers before I'll make it clear especially for you this time.


This quote from myself also explains why I wasn't particularly impressed. By the time we get the night attacks, our characters could usually kill Ash Zombies blindfolded.

Just this one thing.
I know we all have our ascerbic downscrewed, I mean there exist terms of service.
Its just that I think youll find that there isnt even any reason as to be venomous. It wont work.
Its my avatar for a reason.
The ultimate trump.
The ultimate counter.

Animal!

Now that that is all measured, Im done.

Why am I printing this?
Screw it down a few notches cowboy. Treat me as a human that has played the game and, hey, youll get the same from me.

Curse this new-age rap music.

You do know Dagoth had the most legitimate reason to actually have a strong hold of all the people ascended to power from lorkhans heart Not to mention he had at least 3 god like enemies that have near the entirety of morrowinds armies behind them. Just the fact that Dagoth didn't even need to leave red mountain look how far those blight storms get across the island hes been orchestrating a constant attack on Morrowind, when your a leader you kind of have to be a bit of a pencil pusher otherwise his plans and followers would just abandon him.
That is why vivec levitates in his palace all day he can't go out and just enjoy himself as an adventurer without having to prove his divinity all the time and have more sermons written, he's more of a pencil pusher that has to keep control of the ordinators.