Is there a heaven and hell in the ES lore? Also, is Oblivion hell or just the realms for the Deadric Princes?

I don't recall any implied afterlife in Elder Scrolls, aside from earthbound ghosts. Curious, that is. That there would be so many religions in Tamriel and not one concept of a separate spirit realm. Are all the religions just mechanisms to get earthly favors?

If you die, your soul goes to Mundus where it gets stripped from its memories and feelings, then it gets recycled and sticked into a new soul.
You could also be a worshipper of a Daedra to get into his realm after your death. For example Mankar Camoran & Co.

Well, there's Oblivion and Aetherius, which are home to the Daedra and Aedra (the Divines), respectively, and I think that some souls may end up going there.

The majority, however, experience a form of reincarnation where their soul travels through the 'Dreamsleave', has its identity stripped from it, and sent back to be reborn.

Huh? What you been reading? The Yokudans have the Far Shores and the Nords have Sovngarde and the Loveletter states that the spirits go "towards its aligned AE, either to the god-planet Aedra or the Principalities of Oblivion" prior to being recycled. I'm also certain that the Cyrodiils believe Aetherius to be their ultimate destination, but a cursory look reveals nothing.

The Aetherius and Oblivion Heaven and Hell anologies are kind of heavy in some places, the terms being interchangeable sometimes. E.g. Lament for Pelinal's reference to "the insane else of heaven" almost certainly refers to Aetherius, as does Mor speaking in the Aldudaggas to Dagon: "Heaven is not happy of it." Add to that Dagon's own utterance "Oh by the sixteen hells", a clear reference to Oblivion, as well as Battlespire's "Demon Principalities" to describe the Daedric realms.

Edit: I believe the consensus is that being in the dreamsleeve results in a dream of what people expect, as suggested by Sovngarde (meaning Sleepguard), before being recycled.

He doesn't read if he misses out on all that stuff.

Neither does the op.

You don't even need to read to pick that up. Just one runthrough of bloodmoon makes reference to the afterlife at least three times.


People will tell you that the dreamsleave is the confirmed destination of dead souls in TES. Its not. There is nothing confirmed. There are numerous differing ideas. Read all of them and come to your own conclusion.

Yeah, I mean I picked up a ton of stuff from Oblivion about it. Ghosts that say "I go now to aetherius" Or, "ge now kneels at the feet of our dread father" Even in the starter dungeon, Dreth says "I must be dead, and in the halls of Azura". Even if some of these, like the sithis one, aren't neccessarirly true or a real afterlife, the belief in it is still there.

Arkay, the God of the Cycle of Life and death.

Mankar Camoran.

Paradise.

Nerevar Incarnate.

Sovngarde.

They all shout very loudly in the same direction. What alternatives are you talking about?

We've been through this a million times.

Short answer:
No, not really.

Long answer:
There are other loads of other forms of afterlife but most of them really fit in with the Judeo-Christian/Islamic Heaven & Hell idea. Most people are re-incarnated through the Dreamsleave but others go to the realm of some god. It depends on a lot of things.

I've been thinking about this one a lot lately, especially in regards to the in-game book Palla. The protagonists attempts to resurrect Xarlys (and the errant rez of Palla by way of knowing the wrong name) imply existence after death and some form of continued connection to the mortal plane (he can "almost feel her" at times). This seems to imply that Xarlys was in some sort of plane as opposed to reincarnated and thus could have been rezzed through necromantic means. Coupled with Martin's speech (((spoilers))) this implies a "land of the dead" or a place of continued existence, perhaps akin to the Hebraic idea of Sheol.

It's a matter of opinion, The KOTN questline gives some clarification on an afterlife but not on heaven or hell. I trust what a Daedric Prince would say and Jyggalag said "I go now to roam the planes of Oblivion" (Or something similar) which clarifies the existence of different places depending on what religion you follow. Some of the mythic dawn in Oaradise seem to believe if you are killed there then you are simply dead.

Don't forget about things like soul trapping. Imagine seeing your body die and falling into a stone. You then stay there until you are infused into a weapon and then you're grinded away until you are gone forever.

Dodgy Sh**

We don't even know the experience of being soul trapped, so we can't necessarily make a proper assessment of what that may be like.

I do. It tickled.

Unless eternal dips into magma gives you pleasure, you would certainly call the fate of the reluctant mythic dawn agents hell. Mankar's paradise was pretty [censored], those who were not being tortured were likely seeking to commit suicide in amusing ways (Groundhog Day).

I'm reasonably sure it's a "depends on who'se answering" question. Any in-game character would say different stuff, like a Morrowind Dunmer would say your soul goes to Oblivion where it waits summoning to do it's duty guarding it's kin. It's up to you, the person playing, to decide what you believe. Of course by saying this, someone now wants to rip my throat out even more than he did before, so I'll put in what the general, third-person consensus is.

Although I have never even once heard it said in-game directly, the forum community usually says the recycled souls thing. Could someone clue me in to where that came from (Asking for sources, the desire to annihilate me becomes EVEN MORE severe)?

Has it ever been clarified what TES means by "soul"?

I usually think of soul as being who a person is... thus, soul trapping would seem rather cruel. The Dreamsleeve process would then seem more like reincarnation...

But, if the "soul" is the battery that makes the body go, then soul trapping is using this energy... and I guess you could call the Dreamsleeve a recharger. Of course, this being TES, no doubt the deeds done while the battery was in the body would affect and change the properties of the battery... which, when it gets put in a new body, would affect the body (personality? Physical abilities? Nerevarine, anyone?)...


:lol:

Daedra's souls get recycled into Oblivion Realms. Other than I that I have no knowledge of an 'afterlife' in Tamriel...

And to answer your second question, Oblivion is just the realms of the Daedric Princes.

gamesas worked hard on making sure people dont see Hell or Heaven anywhere in TES... yes, some still do. Most curious.

Oblivion is not Hell. Other reals are not Heaven or some such. Basically, mortals go through recycling process, as it was already mentioned. How any given man or mer lives their life has little to no impact on them after they die.

No real consensus can be reached, as the effects of soultrap and enchanting hasn't been consistently depicted. In Daggerfall it was rather explicit. The soul used in the enchantment would attack if the weapon was broken. Plus using a soul in an enchantment was optional, removing the whole "magic battery" aspect. In Morrowind it was implied that souls contained identity, as the names were retained on the soul gems. In Oblivion the whole process is trivialised, as all souls are split into five categories and the use of the spell is almost required to use enchantments effectively. It was just a magic battery, with no distinguishing features whatsoever.

The planes of Oblivion in TES IV sure didn't look like a taco stand.

Lava + beasts that could easily be seen as demons (and perhaps have been referred to as demons in the games) + pain, suffering and torture = something people would think of as Hell.

Well... seeing as theres Gods and Talos descended into the Heaven to become Nine I'd say there was.

Point taken. And its a good point. Still, the way we know Heaven and Hell, there is just no such place in TES; only a bunch of reals where Daedra, Aedra and other dieties reside.
If Heaven is just a realm(s) where gods live, than I suppose that quailifies non-Daedric reals as Heavens. :shrug:

Those planes where Dagon's realm. Other Daedric Princes' realms look different.

It is strange that there was such a heaven/hell vibe in TES IV. The Imperial Cult form Morrowind turned into something strongly evocative of real-world (specifically, Christian/Catholic) religion - the chapels (complete with pews and stained glass windows), the monastery, the entire attitude of the 'clergy,' that sort of thing. It wasn't very creative of the devs, and felt oh-so-cliche in a video game. Oh, and don't even get me started on KotN. :meh:

Yeah, but Palla isn't canon.