The point is that the war is being managed by morons. Step back and you'll see that no one with any clout has any idea what they are doing, or they are just crazy. I just finished a play through last night where I deliberately built the PC so I could talk Lanius and Curtis out of fighting. It was pretty blah as a game, true. Storywise, it held up, because both were presented with consequences neither had entertained. And they should have, long before things reached that point. War never changes, you know. Where have I heard that?

Yeah, I have to second that. I keep hearing that the Legion uses nothing but melee weapons but I've never experienced that to be the case. Some individuals, notably at low levels, sure, but not as a whole.
In the end game they can chew you up with those carbines.

Melee for backup and close quarters. Still used today.
In game, probably for that Roman machismo effect, though I imagine most tribals (who I doubt are ancient history buffs) just laugh at the guys in dresses. At first.

I found a lot of legion had just machete's? anyway, i just found the legion to be ridiculous. couldn't really take them seriously. dont think they fit in with a fallout game

Yeah,

I mean, a Soldier cant ALWAYS rely on a gun, they are trained in Melee and Hand-To-Hand Combat in case that you lost your gun whatever was the circumstances


Still used today, and its gonna be use forever

Also, some Legion Soldiers use the Displacer glove, pretty much is a futuristic version of a knuclke I think

Truthfully, I'm not a fan of them, either. They served their role in the story, and the reasons for their existence were well defined. So I can't find fault in their inclusion. But I've yet to really be comfortable with them; they seem very anachronistic for a game that seems to expect to be taken seriously. But that's just my own reaction. They seem pretty popular.

I understand that, but a lot of them have just a machete or ballistic fist. The NCR has GUNS. People with guns tend to fight from distance. They would be cannon fodder

Okay? But it's not to hard, all you have to do is time your charging with their reloading. Or use effective cover. The Legion has taken down a myriad of enemies. I doubt a shiny boom boom stick is enough to scare them off.

That would be a good point if they were using musketts, lol.

i agree, and there's some people that don't like NV to be criticized, but the fact is NV is just lacking some fun, no big buildings to fight in like the capitol building, not a lot of human enemies to fight considering the size of the map, not a lot of good battlzones like in FO3, you had la enfant plaza, seward square etc, its kinda lackluster, its a good game but its just not a great game, its just missing to many fun elements, there's not even that many supermutants to fight, ceasers legion is living in tents and using too many melee weapons to make them fun to fight, if you can find em, the map is very static and most of the factions never patrol they just stay at their outposts, so lots of people feel the same as you do, its not your imagination, for such a huge map area its action sections are very very tiny, this game is mostly about quests and story, its not really about exploring and fighting enemies, we'll have to wait for FO4 for that, since obsidian wants the game to be more "believable" that kinda makes for a dull experience in my opinion, i'm not so sure a desert was the best setting for a game like this. a city would of been far better.

I agree with "EPICS" 2-5, Number 1 only made me think "Dumb-asses. Waste of my time."

To me epic is a breath taking experience such as helping the BOS against the super mutants then hearing a big roar and seeing a behemoth tearing up the place i mean that was epic. NV lacks epicness, there is a little bit of to much talking, sure NV quest were a better scripted but they were pretty predictable as well as the gameplay.

So the typical 'Michael Bay explosions' epic.

Right.

They do fit, actually. It's just that guns are so plentiful in Fallout 3 and NV that it makes you forget that they're supposed to be rare in much of the country. A lot of the folks living out there are hunting with spears because they don't have guns or don't know how to maintain them and make ammunition. I won't argue that there are some inconsistencies in the presentation, but c'mon on...how can anything be worse than Liberty Prime? Seriously. IMO the way Liberty Prime was handled in Fallout 3 was atrocious. It almost made me stop playing the game.


Thanks for sharing, but this is your opinion. Please refrain from labeling it as "fact." Also please don't try to invalidate other peoples' opinions by implying that they refuse to see any flaws. I have plenty of criticisms of NV. "Lack of epicness" doesn't happen to be one of them. Some of Fallout 3's attempts at "epicness" were, for me, some of the lower points of the game.


In a way I agree that was a little hard to swallow. It did feel a little like they were trying to force a non-combat alternative and it was maybe a little out of character. Worse than Liberty Prime/Project Purity ending? Not by a long shot. My opinion, of course.

bethesda decides what fallout is gonna be, its their franchise, i'm sure they are taking notes on all the complaints about FONV, lack of combat, lack of epic moments, all the supermutants taken out, the boring desert environment, and static map, lack of interesting locations to explore, lots of people notice all of this stuff.. topic after topic on this forum alone keeps pointing all these things out, new vegas should of been a lot better, cause obsidian did make some improvements over FO3 but its like they went two steps forward and 3 steps backwards. i know its hard for people to take constructive criticism, but obsidian went for the "realistic/believable" approach and its just lackluster, it took a lot of fun out of the game.

Anything worse? Being able to ride it (as I recall Emil said being their initial plan).

See, a lot of people disagree with you there. Every poll I've seen in this forum about this has been really close to a 50/50 split. Did you happen to notice all of the people complaining about Fallout 3 when it was released? Yeah, there were just as many.


Would that have been worse? I dunno...at least then I would have felt like I was participating instead of watching a Deus Ex Machina defeat the Enclave for me. I've been a huge fan of Bethesda since 1994, but Liberty Prime hurt my feelings.

I think this is a throwback to Fallout, where you could talk it out with The Master. It's also to cater to peoples style, say we build a character with high speech but low guns or any combat skill. Well for that character, speech is his weapon. I think thats supposed to make the point of 'anyone can be convinced, you just need the right cunning and silver tongue.'

Emil? You mean that guy who considers 'pinning your grandma's head to the wall with a railway spike" a Fallout dark humour? That guy who almost creepily glorified the gore in the Dev Diary? That guy who...

Allright, I'll stop. Just don't let him touch Skyrim! :verymad:

Epic at least going by the various definition for it can mean several things, which I'll list below.

1. long narrative poem. (This doesn't really fit any of the Fallout Games or any game to be fair.)
2. elevated narrative poetry. (Again doesn't really fit any game.)
3. large-scale production. (This fits most games, which includes almost all of the Fallout games with the one which shall not be named (not fallout 3) being the exception.)
4. long series of events: a long series of events characterized by adventures or struggle. (Again this fits most games which again includes most of the Fallout games.)


The gist of what I have gleaned from this thread and the OP's post is that at least a portion of the gaming community equates Epic to mean a hard dramatic battles/fights/huge explosions and only that. While New Vegas may not have many Epic battles or fights, it does have other things which can be considered to be Epic.

In my personal opinion both Fallout 3 and New Vegas have moments which can be deemed to be Epic whether it be storyline based, combat based or suchlike.

I think it would (and I, of course, do not know how they would've implemeted it, but I think either way would've just added to the disaster - riding it and not being able to do anything but watch, or riding it and actually controlling it... *shiver*). But that's just my opinion.



That's him.
Actually, the same guy who (iirc) made the DB questline for Oblivion. The one thing in there which could be somewhat lauded at that time, so I guess he's not all that bad (at least when it comes to TES - Fallout is a different matter).

Yeah, I'm sure that's true, but I also think the folks that think it was out-of-character have a point. A lot of people didn't understand why there were so many more Speech opportunities in NV. I even saw several critiques where people whined about it...saying that they were upset that there were Speech options unavailable to them because they didn't put points in Speech. Those people should not play role-playing games.

I don't like it when my character options prohibit completing a certain quest. That is bad game design, half of the speech checks in NV were not accompanied by any other options.

Caesar based them on the Roman Empire because he has a thing for the past. Also the Roman Legions were the most efficient military in history. Why no Awesome weapons? Because they are based in an area that was mostly desert before the great war. The peoples in the area became tribes. This would mean most of the industries in the area are gone. So they have to go back to the old ways, making melee weapons. Caesar himself mentions what he could do if he takes down the NCR. If had what Kimball has. Its why Caesar is attacking NCR.

That's called Character Skill over Player Skill. It's part of fundamental RPG design. The idea is that the Character has certain abilities and flaws that the Role-Player doesn't have. Essentially Michael Jordan can Role-Play as Stephen Hawkings and Stephen Hawkings can Role-Play as Michael Jordan. You're not very familiar with where RPGs come from are you?