I read this topic on some stuff from the new GI issue, and was wondering if there was a mod close for Oblivion. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1156512-skyrim-leveling/

E.g.
- all skill start at level 5, no classes, specialisations or major skills (idk Skyrims base level, that was Oblivion's)
- all skills contribute to leveling up, so I assume a fixed amount of attributes per level? Like x skills -> x attributes -> 1 level.
- higher skill levels progress your character level more (but I assume higher skill levels take more time to progress/actions like in Oblivion)

I saw there was one called 'Realistic Leveling', but I think that kept the major skills/classes/specialisations and gave you extra attrbiute points for them, which sounds like it makes your character a lot stronger to start with than vanilla Oblivion.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14065 has (or had - I haven't tried the latest version) an optional 'GotNoClass.esp' that achieves your first point. However nGCD does the opposite of your last point by default. It is very configurable by ini so it's quite likely you could make it what you will.

Yeah Tejon just put out a new variation on got no class - more of a dynamic class - uhh where is that ...called Any class.

Man I'm looking forward to Skyrim.

I, too, would like to see a Skyrim-style levelling mod or nGCD configuration! Unfortunately, I have little else to contribute to the subject, but at least the thought counts... right?

I live in the boonies and don't have a Game Informer subscription. What do we know? Is it basically a class-free system?

Edit: read Sphagne's highlights... huh. I'm a little confused whether it's still use-based advancement, or XP-based... was that specified?

Anyclass + nGCD (or Realistic Leveling) + (optionally) GotNoClass definitely comes close, assuming Skyrim is still use-based. Not quite the same, but probably the closest you'll come with currently available mods.

Oblivion XP also has some similarities to the new system used by Fallout 3 and now Skyrim. You level by earning enough points. You can configure Oblivion XP to be "jack-of-all-trades", which means that all skills cost 3 points to increase, so there are no majors or minors. You also get a set number of points to spend on attributes each level. There is no connection to practicing skills and having those affect your attributes. Also your skills don't get better by practice.

See my sig if you want to have a look.

I read through this to get an overview. :
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1156525-new-skyrim-info/

In Skyrim there are no major/minor skills, and all skill raises contribute to level up. But, raising a skill that's higher (from 52 to 53) will contribute to leveling more than raising a skill that's lower (from 14 to 15).

It hasn't been confirmed yet but it looks like attributes may be gone completely.

No attributes would be a very different system. Not necessarily bad, but tough to have meaningful differences between the races if so. I could see attributes not being under direct player control... there have been mods for that since Morrowind. :whistling:

Thanks for the help guys, I'll have a look at nGCD's option for removing classes.

Skyrim still seems 'use-based' advancement thankfully.

Also does any mod that works out levels by a set number of attributes(earned from skills), allow you to gain more attribiute points if the skills are a higher rank (e.g. expert)?

Skyrim will also be introducing perks like in fallout(s) that you get on leveling and likely also with one of the 10 races. Probably birhtsigns and classes too.

Not at present, and I'm not sure it would be a good idea given the other parameters of Oblivion's system. Basically, if you want the difference to be noticeable, you'd have to be extremely weak at early levels; starting with the current rate and then speeding it up would result in hitting the attribute cap very quickly. Besides, it sounds like that's not really what Skyrim does; rather, higher skills gain you levels faster. Levels have nothing to do with attributes (except health, magicka and fatigue), the important part is that you get more perks. Assuming they removed the mastery levels and associated perks from skills, this is a MUCH better design than Oblivion. Hopefully they kept attributes in, but just assign them based on race and skills.

There's definite potential here for a system that doesn't desperately need to be modded. We'll see.

Yeah I really like the sound of Skyrims system in that you don't have to use x skill to get x attrbiute. It means you won't have to purposely level skills you don't like as much just to get some attributes. Would have personally preferred to have the skills on skill rank instead of charcter level though.


With the higher skills get you levels faster, I thought mods like Realistic Leveling changed it so you went up a level once you gained x attributes. Is there no mod that does that?
Thats why I thought if higher level skills could give you more attrbiutes, you'd level faster.

I was trying to work out what could be similar in Oblivion, and thought of this..

All 21 skills start at level 5 + racial bonuses
No class - no specialization or major skill bonuses, or faster rates
Skill rate is made faster to average out not having major/spec skills. E.g 0.8 actions/exp needed per level for all skills
For every X skill increases the governing attrbiute is raised 1
Novice/Apprentice/Journeyman/Expert skill increases give different X skill amounts to their governing attrbute - the higher the rank the more.
You level up once you have got +Y attrbiute points

But I'm not sure if it would be possible to work out what values repersented by X and Y would be need to keep charactar leveling rate at the same as Vanilla. Perhaps 9 attrbiutes per level since +3 modifiers are in the middle..

Then I thought maybe it will just not work well in matching up the leveling rate since its so different to Oblivions own system. ;p

nGCD + GotNoClass + setting the minor skill advancement rate to 1.0 (easy with Progress) achieves the first four things. Well, nGCD uses a far more complex skill-attribute connection than just one governing attribute, but it's basically the same overall.

The last two are technically possible -- easy, even -- but not a good idea in Oblivion. There's the issue I described above, where the inherent cap to attributes means that if you want them to increase faster with higher skills, they have to be very slow at early levels which is frustrating in multiple ways. But most importantly, gaining levels in Oblivion is not beneficial. All a higher level really does is make the game generate tougher enemies. With any of the mods that take over attribute advancement, even hit points aren't really level dependent; they're based on skills, or on attributes which in turn are based on skills. If the system were changed so that raising higher skills gave quicker advancement, the optimal strategy would be to keep all your skills as even as possible so you can minimize your level relative to your character's actual power. The standard optimization strategy in vanilla Oblivion is "minors as majors" -- choose the least-used skills for your class, so you can easily manage levels and attributes. Any class-weighted system, or any system that gives higher benefit for higher ranks, will yield a similar strategy.

Where Skyrim fixes this is by giving perks at each level, so gaining levels has a real benefit. Oblivion doesn't have those perks, and without them the Skyrim system is utterly broken. Now, this could probably be done -- but nobody's done it yet. The fact that there are several hard-coded perks built into the skill mastery system doesn't help, because you have to work around those to avoid redundancy or imbalanced stacking.

Level perks could be implemented and I'd say a good solid start to this is the mod http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35300. A Mod I will always play with now.

But the idea would be to keep going with more levels. I guess i was wrong about Skyrim and classes - class has been taken out I guess with the rationale that you create your own. Still I imagine that behind the scenes for generating enemies there will be something that helps then define the NPC abilities that will be class-like as far as assigning skills and such.

There are many mods both altering and adding perks to the fallouts.

This is something that could, I think quite easily, be added to the Levelling Mod I am working on-- and now I know how to do Pluggy ini files, would be more user-friendly for configuration (but I'd have to implement that-- and right now the Script is something like 1000 lines long). It also does a fair-bit more (Health/Magicka changes; Attribute effect Changes; Training Changes), so may not be suitable when it eventually comes out (although I may be scaling some of this back-- the %-boost to Skill Levelling based on Intelligence is STILL not working right )

On the issue of Perks-- this was something else I did long ago, when FO3 first came out-- I think it is unavailable now, but the issue I found was adding Perks that were well-balanced and in style with Oblivion; it IS possible, but my version at least (lacking Menus) was not as good as the FO3 versions, which will probably be fixed in Skyrim.