Tell that to the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrgMUwhf0Dc&feature=related (3:10).

"M'aiq does not wish to fight on horseback. It is a good way to ruin a perfectly good horse... which is, to say, a perfectly good dinner...especially with good cream sauce"

I don't care about mounts really. Riding a horse in oblivion was fun alright, but sooner or later it became tiresaome because you had to constantly unmount. Instead of riding over bandits you had no other opitions than either escape or jump from the saddle. So unless benthesa considers adding mounted combat, I'm all for mounts. Otherwise they don't have much purpose.

Pack mules ovah horzas/any other mounts IMHO

Nope they didn't, just got second hand info so now there confused and making threads on which they really don't know whats going on. Plus i think that he was trying to be secretive about what mounts they were going to try.

That's what yaks are for. And slaves. And children.

Yeah, I don't use mounts so I don't think anyone else should be able to use them either. I want the maces and daggers to be left out too cause I never used them in Oblivion. Same goes for playing as beast races and elves. Ain't gonna play as them and no one else should be able to play as them either.

I agree with Ma'iq, and for this, I would be happy with a horse just to travel (if possible, better than in Oblivion...), not to fight on his back. Although good implemented mounted combat would rock as well.

i bet they'll be in i assume what they are hashing out is how usable and player friendly they can make them. Todd said a few times it would be weird not to see horses around or something along those lines. With the level of immersion they are trying to put in to this game with all the new economical improvements i would expect to see horses and maybe other animals being used by the npc's in their day to day a more advanced version of the guards and couriers we saw in oblivion.

Never used mount in Oblivion, with 100 in speed you're even faster without one.

Perhaps they could add a "riding" skill with its own perks!

I think a lot of people (me included) would be disapointed. At the VERY LEAST, just do the same thing as Oblivion. I dont need horse combat, but this is pretty important.

Well, Todd said they where disappointed with horse riding in Oblivion (and I agree, since Oblivion's horse riding wasn't very good), so they either are going to do it well (like Red Dead Redemption or Assassin's Creed I suppose) or don't do it at all.

I can see the point to that, though I really hope they just improve it. Just as some other stuff removed in past Elder Scrolls games just because it didn't work that well, if something isn't working good yet (like Oblivion horses) improved it, instead of remove it.

I guess to me, doing horses well means there will be mounted combat. It's too much of a stretch to think nobody ever considered cavalry in the ES world.

I'd imagine they want to have a fluid feel to riding as well as mounted combat. If that can't be achieved, it probably won't be included.

The only real trick I see is balancing the mounted character with the character on foot. It would kind of defeat the purpose of their "No firing arrows while running" if you could fire them on horseback while a horde of bandits slowly ran toward you.

Awell... In OB on my 30+ lvl I run faster than any horse, and my Speed is just about 80-90... :batman:
It was nice to have one anyway, but they better keep mounts out if there's no mounted combat.

Offtopic: My best experience with a horse was riding it to Skingrad castle gate. That fires both sides of the road and that increadible views... :touched:

I never use them in Oblivion. Out of all the horribly done parts of Oblivion, horses are one of the worst. They don't move enough faster than the player for it to be super appealing, and they're just clunky and frustrating. Without mounted combat they make wilderness areas really frustrating as well. Taking damage as you get off your horse is annoying, especially when being mounted should be, in most situations, a combat ADVANTAGE, and when the game bugs, it's even more frustrating. I tried to get off my horse once but, when it went to put me off, there was a rock next to the horse, and apparently it wasn't proper alignment for the game to put me off, so I sat there unable to do ANYTHING, and the game finally put me through the dismount animation and I was able to start fighting when I was almost dead entirely.

That being said, I'm a big proponent of allowing the role playing aspects to flourish amongst the people who want them. I would very much like horses to be in Skyrim, even if they're the same horses that were in Oblivion. Just because to some people it seems to be a big thing. On that note, I'd definitely prefer horses in the game to be much improved over Oblivion. Making them control more realistically (not going from start to go and back so clunky, not turning so clunky, etc...) and including a well done mounted combat system would make horses offer a gameplay reason for use. Also seeing the horses actually significantly faster than our player character (and not by slowing down the player character but by speeding up the horse), would offer even more of a gameplay reason for them to be there. And the final request I'd have for a horse system would be the ability to have a horse inventory with a certain encumbrance (depending on the type of horse) that you can dump loot into especially for weaker characters that can't continuously loot or mass loot and be able to make it back to civilization.

And finally, I'm VERY glad to hear you can't ride the dragons. That would be ridiculous. They're enemies in every sense of the word, as mentioned in the podcast. They're also intelligent beings from what I can tell that probably wouldn't even allow it if they were friendly (which I suppose a few might be, as I remember one of the dragon voice powers being something about summoning the aid of a dragon). While I'm definitely all for role play freedom and doing all sorts of things even when those things might not appeal to me, things that go against the lore are a no. If there are concessions there, then what's to stop people from asking to ride liches and ghosts and daedroths? If it's not something that can be done in the TES universe, leave it out. The game needs to allow complete freedom, but only where it doesn't destabilize the game and the TES universe's rules.

No mounts at all > Badly implemented mounts (Oblivion)

What he means by "I really can't see a game this big not having some kind of mounts" is that the game most likely will have mounts.

Mounted combat isn't balanced, though. Nor should it be. That's why calvary was so important. Their speed and mobility gave them a distinct advantage over the infantry.

Indeed, but you can't balance encounters assuming that all characters will be on foot when mounts are available. AI doesn't respond how humans do. If five humans saw a single target on a horse, they would never charge at him as he continually kept out of their range. They'd adapt.

So the tricky part is balancing mounts against characters on foot. Not to be entirely equal, but to have NPCs on foot respond appropriately, and to allow encounters to be challenging without assuming that everyone will be on horseback at all times.

Yeah, true. BGS is pretty horrible in the AI department.

Couldn't stand the oblivion mounts, personally don't care if they're in or not. Much rather they spent time converting the horses to pack mules so i can loot more :tongue:

I never used horses in my gameplay, but it would svck if they were removed because other people like using them for rping and junk.

I just think Todd was reluctant to confirm them, because they're no't finished. I expect we'll get mounts. And, since it sounds like they're using Red Dead Redemption as inspiration, I expect those mounts will be stunning. I hope they can also be used as pack animals.

That sounds more like an AI issue than a balance issue. Sure, it'd be important for enemies to respond appropriately. It still wouldn't be balanced, they'd just behave more reasonably. And it should go both ways. If you're on foot, taking on a mounted opponent should be a challenge.