Sorry, I do not mean to sound like a jerk -- I do have a strong love for this game and the idea of a min UI

It is called damage control. Most people will not get an add -on for DPS meters and combat logs thus less jerks. People who really what that info, they can have it also. Compare to the numbers will not have the add-on, they will be less min-maxers thus less jerks. If it is in the default UI, the number of min-maxers will be much higher. I can become a min-maxer too and play by the numbers very easy, but I learn the hard way -- it is more fun not to burn yourself out by reaching to ever higher numbers and worry about that all the time instead of enjoying what the game is.

Are you really that naive to think that if they had damage log, that somebody couldn't come up mods to parse those logs to calculate a DPS value? Then using a gear database such as ESOhead to calculate an optimal set of gear to generate the maximum amount of DPS.

Even if it was merely optional, those who opted in would inevitably become no different that the Dbags that infest so many other games such as WoW. It would drive a wedge in the community. I would argue in this case, that a little ignorance would be bliss and help stave off creating a toxic community in the game.

Games like that are for kiddies and cartoons. ESO is not a kiddie game.

That's reasonable, but they should find a solution that doesn't take you out of the world the way floating numbers do. Something like glows, animations, sound effects, that sort of thing.

yup

again you're stating opinion as fact. to me those numbers are part of the game, they are a big part of winning any battle. I like to know which spells / abilities are more efficient than others. Ability cost vs damage/healing done allows for better balance of skills vs resources available. its about being the best I can be with the resources I have at hand. If your good with the median more power to you myself I want to be the best I can be. And no I'm not an elitist, I expect the best from myself regardless of the situation

In all my time playing Rift I never encountered elitist jerks save the occasional frustrated battleground guy who'd be pissed you're not doing enough damage or aren't healing him or something (what game doesn't have those jerks). Elitist jerks that use gear score and DPS meters as a measure of how worthy you are to be in their group seem to be a WoW phenomenon.

I'm actually not at all worried that that will happen in ESO. If anything the jerks will be those who require you create a character with a specific build to take advantage of synergies.

That doesn't even make sense. Seeing damage numbers on screen has nothing to do with that. If you don't have a good argument to make, then don't post, but don't go making stuff up.

no but it is competitive, and like it or not competition is about being the best, using every resource at hand to be better.

~hands popcorn and some 3D glasses for the math class~

This Khajiit will be playing her game instead.

//that is just a silly answer that I was thinking, now the real answer

I have played the beta and single player TES games and they don't have floating numbers or combat logs, but still can see what skills / spells do the best damage with those items. One does not need to see numbers to know that info. Just watch the health bars, they will tell you.

So you don't want other people being jerks, but you are excused?

WoW damage meters were not forced on people, people sought them out. If they prove popular they will be used.

As I have said before damage meters don't create jerks. Jerks will be jerks regardless.

People like feeling superior to others, hell any forum shows that much

Equally people will find some way to determine superiority or demean others even if you don't have damage meters, to think otherwise is shockingly naive.

I am not making stuff up, seeing numbers reminds of cartoon shows and old NES game made for kids. I do not want to play a cartoon or a game made for kids.

Just to make myself clear (and I did edit the OP to say this): the numbers themselves are not important. It's the fact that the numbers tell you you're doing damage or healing that's important. If they can use another visual cue to accomplish that I'm fine with it. I'd love the aiming reticle to show us we're hitting or healing, the way it does in an FPS.

Something is needed beyond watching people's small health meters, because in a large PvP battle it gets really cluttered and half the time you can't tell if you're the one damaging or healing or if it's someone else.

Well then if you only played TES games then you shouldn't really be commenting on what an MMO should or shouldn't have as you have no idea.

Bottom, line whether you want to believe it or not ESO IS an MMO and it MUST have standard MMO features.

I will have to take your word on that as I have never played that game, however, I have played WoW and that was all I seemed to see.

I usually play the min-max game of my own volition, I just do not like it when it's demanded. I hope you are correct that it is just a WoW phenomenon, but I am skeptical and prefer not to bait it. We'll simply have to agree to disagree.

sorry, I hate when I leave out the word of "NOT" I meant to say "Sorry, I do not mean to sound like a jerk -- I do have a strong love for this game and the idea of a min UI"

I guess time will tell who is right or not.

I agree in part. the information is there in a minimalist way, like saying the sun is hot. Its not efficient and while it may suffice for you I would prefer to have real information instead of partial guess work. Its how i was trained, how I live and work, guess work does not cut it.

I agree with that, ZOS might need a better system to tell that info in a large scale PVP battle. Having a floating numbers or combat logs is not the way to do that.

As long as there's no DPS meter for [censored] measuring against everyone in your party I'm good.

Trust me WoW is a cesspool compared to Rift. I don't know why, but because I quit WoW for Rift a few years back I'm no longer that concerned about elitist jerks. There's always going be a few in every MMO (Rift did have some but nothing like WoW) but I wouldn't worry too much.

Rift has DPS meters, but rather than people using them to belittle others they used to them to praise others. Strange right? I remember distinctively one time my necro topped a battleground's DPS meter by quite a bit, and rather than bemoan the DPS at the bottom of the list (he was a DPSer not a healer) they congratulated me for being on top. I may even have the screenshot of it still.

Now that Rift is f2p it may have attracted some elitist jerks, but not when I played when it was a subscription.

Understandable -- just different play styles. I have great concern what that will lead too if numbers are show in the default UI. That is why there is an add-on option(s). I am betting most people are fine with guess work.

I'd definitely liek to see this also with some type of range indicator (not numbers for range tho, maybe a changing reticule.).

It is how TES has always been, MMO players come along and demand the game be tailored to them.

I agree 100%.

Trial and error, and through experience that I gain by playing. Player skill.